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superstar - member
549 posts

In an effort to get the ball rolling here for the new year, I give you Paul Krugman's op-ed piece for today...

As the new Democratic majority prepares to take power, Republicans have become, as Phil Gramm might put it, a party of whiners.

Some of the whining almost defies belief. Did Alberto Gonzales, the former attorney general, really say, “I consider myself a casualty, one of the many casualties of the war on terror”? Did Rush Limbaugh really suggest that the financial crisis was the result of a conspiracy, masterminded by that evil genius Chuck Schumer?

But most of the whining takes the form of claims that the Bush administration’s failure was simply a matter of bad luck — either the bad luck of President Bush himself, who just happened to have disasters happen on his watch, or the bad luck of the G.O.P., which just happened to send the wrong man to the White House.

The fault, however, lies not in Republicans’ stars but in themselves. Forty years ago the G.O.P. decided, in effect, to make itself the party of racial backlash. And everything that has happened in recent years, from the choice of Mr. Bush as the party’s champion, to the Bush administration’s pervasive incompetence, to the party’s shrinking base, is a consequence of that decision.

If the Bush administration became a byword for policy bungles, for government by the unqualified, well, it was just following the advice of leading conservative think tanks: after the 2000 election the Heritage Foundation specifically urged the new team to “make appointments based on loyalty first and expertise second.”

Contempt for expertise, in turn, rested on contempt for government in general. “Government is not the solution to our problem,” declared Ronald Reagan. “Government is the problem.” So why worry about governing well?

Where did this hostility to government come from? In 1981 Lee Atwater, the famed Republican political consultant, explained the evolution of the G.O.P.’s “Southern strategy,” which originally focused on opposition to the Voting Rights Act but eventually took a more coded form: “You’re getting so abstract now you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is blacks get hurt worse than whites.” In other words, government is the problem because it takes your money and gives it to Those People.

Oh, and the racial element isn’t all that abstract, even now: Chip Saltsman, currently a candidate for the chairmanship of the Republican National Committee, sent committee members a CD including a song titled “Barack the Magic Negro” — and according to some reports, the controversy over his action has actually helped his chances.

So the reign of George W. Bush, the first true Southern Republican president since Reconstruction, was the culmination of a long process. And despite the claims of some on the right that Mr. Bush betrayed conservatism, the truth is that he faithfully carried out both his party’s divisive tactics — long before Sarah Palin, Mr. Bush declared that he visited his ranch to “stay in touch with real Americans” — and its governing philosophy.

That’s why the soon-to-be-gone administration’s failure is bigger than Mr. Bush himself: it represents the end of the line for a political strategy that dominated the scene for more than a generation.

The reality of this strategy’s collapse has not, I believe, fully sunk in with some observers. Thus, some commentators warning President-elect Barack Obama against bold action have held up Bill Clinton’s political failures in his first two years as a cautionary tale.

But America in 1993 was a very different country — not just a country that had yet to see what happens when conservatives control all three branches of government, but also a country in which Democratic control of Congress depended on the votes of Southern conservatives. Today, Republicans have taken away almost all those Southern votes — and lost the rest of the country. It was a grand ride for a while, but in the end the Southern strategy led the G.O.P. into a cul-de-sac.

Mr. Obama therefore has room to be bold. If Republicans try a 1993-style strategy of attacking him for promoting big government, they’ll learn two things: not only has the financial crisis discredited their economic theories, the racial subtext of anti-government rhetoric doesn’t play the way it used to.

Will the Republicans eventually stage a comeback? Yes, of course. But barring some huge missteps by Mr. Obama, that will not happen until they stop whining and look at what really went wrong. And when they do, they will discover that they need to get in touch with the real “real America,” a country that is more diverse, more tolerant, and more demanding of effective government than is dreamt of in their political philosophy

fanatic - admin
6512 posts

Paul Krugman is a race-baiter of the highest order. Always has been. Always will be. He is one of many reasons I no longer read the formerly proud, accurate and honorable New York Times.

Of course, I suppose in the LIBERAL mind, the way to truly bring the country together and set a new tone in Washington is to immediately paint the Republican Party as racist through and through. We've come to expect that, though. It's wrong, but it's apparently the politically correct thing to say.

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"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
superstar - member
549 posts

I was trying to stir up comments, and I knew something from Krugman would bring JD out. ;)

fanatic - admin
6512 posts

Nah, Virginia, that didn't bring me out for a serious conversation. I've said before that Krugman is just as much a mouthpiece for liberals as Ann Coulter is for conservatives. The only difference is, Ann Coulter has a sense of humor.

If I wanted to engage in serious debate about something in this miserable new year, I'd go back and jump on your "oppressed minority" BS and discuss the double standard in this country for use of racially-tinged words. But it wouldn't matter. The die is cast. Capitalism is dead. Socialism has prevailed. I'm off to see if I can attach myself to the Federal titty now like everybody else is going to have to do - all in the name of economic fairness, of course. Wink

Heck, if I can show the proof that my great grandmother was one-quarter black, my uncle married a Mexican woman and my wife is half Cherokee, I can probably RETIRE now that those who claim American society should be color-blind and all-inclusive, then spend four decades separating us by race, ethnic background and national origin in order to favor some over others have taken control. And, after all, why should I continue to try to overcome my own bad choices and mistakes in life when, if I just wait awhile and whine loud enough, Uncle Sam will bail me out. Smile.

__________________
"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
superstar - member
549 posts

Oh I don't like Krugman much more than I do Coulter. I just got tired of seeing one day since last comment.

See I don't think this is going to be a miserable new year. I think we are all going to have financial hardships, but I think everything is going to work out. Don't be such a pessimist JD! Let's give both the liberals in the new federal government and the conservatives in the new local government a chance. Then, we can all bitch about them later. ;)

fanatic - member
1676 posts
IBV;  I agree with the "give'em a chance."  I did not vote for Obama, but I give him my wholehearted support because he is MY President.  I want him to succeed.  I want him to do well for the country.  I want him to go down in the History books as the greatest since....whomever.  That is the attitude expressed by many folks I know. 
__________________
Spare the advice: Wise Men don't need it; fools won't heed it. (Unsure)
fanatic - admin
6512 posts

I'll say again, Virginia: I'm willing to give the liberals in the "new" Federal government (New? HAH!) exactly the same chance the liberals in the "old" Federal government gave George W. Bush starting on Jan. 20, 2001. No more, no less.

Personally, I've earned the right to be a pessimist. For most of my life, I thought the underpinnings of American society - faith, family, initiative, capitalism and speaking with one voice in foreign policy matters - would carry us through any crisis. For more than two centuries, we have been more like those midwesterners who live on the banks of the Mississippi River - those who work feverishly ON THEIR OWN INITIATIVE filling sandbags and preparing for those regular floods - and less like those dumbasses in New Orleans who sat on their porches (and later their roofs, if they were lucky enough to still have one) in the face of a Cat 4 hurricane cussing because nobody from the government showed up to rescue their dumb asses.

You know, personally, I've always thought it was my responsibility, not the government's, to take care of my own family. Somebody sent me something a day or two ago that makes a lot of sense to a lot of us: "I carry a gun because a police officer is too heavy to carry around all day."

The United States is no longer a sovereign nation whose people are capable to taking care of themselves. We are a nation totally dependent on government for salvation. In other words, instead of being a great country, we are now just one huge New Orleans where the prevailing mindset is that we can only succeed as a people to the extent that our government ALLOWS us to succeed or HELPS us to succeed.

This is not the America I love or the America we should be. Fortunately for me, I don't have much time left - but I fear for my children, and their children, and their children. And this isn't about Obama or Republicans or Democrats. A majority of our elected officials seem to be perfectly content with paying the auto industry and others trillions of our dollars to smooth the ride in our handbasket to hell. Bottom line: The ride may be more comfortable, but the destination hasn't changed.

Good, God, I've turned into my father! (I'm just glad he was right.) Frown

__________________
"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
superstar - member
549 posts

JD you are sounding like an old man now. "Way back in the good ole days things were so much better than they are now. When we used to walk up hill in the snow both ways to school. You younsters don't know nothing about hardwork. In my day, we worked all day picking cotton for a penny!"

And for the record, I don't think Katrina was all Bush's fault. For quite a while now, scientists have been telling people not to live in a geological bowl next to the ocean, and for the life of me I don't know why we want to rebuild there. I think it is just a fundamental fault of humanity, this arrogance that we can out-engineer Mother Nature.

I know I can be a naive optimist that needs some of your cautious pessimism, but you could use a bit of my silver lining too. We all have a lot of work to do, but throwing your hands up and cursing the sky isn't going to do anything for your children, their children, and so on.

fanatic - admin
6512 posts

Virginia, I'm not throwing up my hands and cursing anything. I'm just accepting that things are what they are. I thought that's what the majority wanted?

I'm 58, Virginia, so I don't know if that makes me an "old man" yet. I do know there is a magical age at which us older Americans are automatically considered to old, feeble and senile to be of any merit to society, at which point we're supposed to fade away to the nursing home and keep out noses out of the business of younger Americans who know everything. I do not know what that age is, but I do know some on your side said John McCain was too old to be President - and he's 72 years old - so obviously sometimes in the next 14 years I will, indeed, be an "old man" according to the liberal rulebook.

Do you happen to know what that exact age is, Virginia, just so I can prepare for it? I might want to fade away a year or two early just to avoid burdening the younger society with things like EXPERIENCE and HISTORICAL KNOWLEDGE that mean so little to them nowadays. Wink

As for the "good ol' days" let me just say this. My father grew up in the 1920s and 1930s as the son of a Southern farmer who made it as far as seventh grade before having to drop out of school to help HIS father on the farm (he was one of those "ignorant rednecks" you so despise. About the time he his his early 20s and got married, he found himself drafted into WWII and spent two and a half years in Europe dodging bullets and artillery rounds.

I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s, when we regularly had nuclear drills in school whereby the alarm would go off and we would duck and cover under our desks to protect us from that 5,000-degree nuclear blast and devastating shockwave that would follow. It made us feel better. Actually, it made us understand how little would could do in the event of a nuclear attack, but it was something.

I also grew up when schools were still segregated. I questioned that sometimes, but I was always told, "That's just the way it is." Fortunately, that's NOT the way it is now - but when I recall the discrimination and racism I saw growing up, and then hear people call mild racial epithets "blatant racism" I question whether they actually understand what was going on back then.

Anyway, no, I don't long for the "good ol' days" any more than my father did as far as economic and social conditions are concerned. But I do long for a time when Americans were a "Yes, we can" people instead of a "Yes, we can if the government will help us" people. Many of our founding fathers feared an all-powerful central government. Many of us still do. Is that so difficult to understand? 

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"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
superstar - member
549 posts

Your grandfather does not sound at all like those ignorant rednecks that I don't like. It has nothing to do with a lack of education or any kind of socio-economic standing or even a love of NASCAR. The ignorant rednecks that I dispise are people who still hate black people, homosexuals, feminists, anyone from another country, etc.

I don't dispute that Americans throughout history have accomplished amazing things. It's just that "we were great but your generation sucks" attitude that I don't like. Your grandfather's generation thought that about your dad's and your dad's about yours. Government help has been around a long time, particularly after the Great Depression. I don't want to see this country turn into what you call a "welfare state" any more than you do, but I also don't think that it is every man for himself. I don't think that the "welfare state" is the cause of our current problems. We, as an entire country, went from creating, inventing, and making things to shifting money, creating more imaginary money. And I've said before, that is as much the fault of Democrats as Republicans. We, all of us, have to redefine ourselves, again, like we have in the past. We cannot live in a Walmart world and expect our jobs to pay well and have good benefits. We cannot live on credit and expect to prosper. It's not the fault of people on government assistance any more than it is the fault of corrupt CEOS. It's a flaw in our modern identity that will be corrected by current circumstance, unpleasant though it might be. Economically, we haven't lived like "those Midwesterners" for a very long time, and it's time we did.

fanatic - member
2368 posts


Nah, Virginia, that didn't bring me out for a serious conversation. I've said before that Krugman is just as much a mouthpiece for liberals as Ann Coulter is for conservatives. The only difference is, Ann Coulter has a sense of humor.

If I wanted to engage in serious debate about something in this miserable new year, I'd go back and jump on your "oppressed minority" BS and discuss the double standard in this country for use of racially-tinged words. But it wouldn't matter. The die is cast. Capitalism is dead. Socialism has prevailed. I'm off to see if I can attach myself to the Federal titty now like everybody else is going to have to do - all in the name of economic fairness, of course. [image]

Heck, if I can show the proof that my great grandmother was one-quarter black, my uncle married a Mexican woman and my wife is half Cherokee, I can probably RETIRE now that those who claim American society should be color-blind and all-inclusive, then spend four decades separating us by race, ethnic background and national origin in order to favor some over others have taken control. And, after all, why should I continue to try to overcome my own bad choices and mistakes in life when, if I just wait awhile and whine loud enough, Uncle Sam will bail me out. [image]
.

-jdtippett

JD - Ann Coulter is better looking than Krudman.

PS: Where's my bailout ? I still have to pay my mortage, my car loan, my utilties, my food bill, on and on. I guees I need to wine more about it.Yes JD, I got the "wine" spell'n the way I meant it. :-)

fanatic - member
3336 posts

I admit that the longer I live and the more I learn, it seems the less I know or understand. But this latest ‘bailout’ of GMAC seems beyond human comprehension.

They got $6 billion from the Treasury. This is a company that lost 8 billion in the last 15 months.

First of all, GMAC is not a GM subsidiary. The controlling share of GMAC is owned by a private investment firm that also owns Chrysler and many other holdings. They are not in dire financial condition from the little financial info I can find.

But here is what really makes the cheese binding. GM immediately used this new source of financing power to offer 0% interest car loans, mostly on SUVs and other large models. So, when your next-door neighbor drives up in a new SUV that he financed through GMAC, remember your money paid for his transaction.

On top of which you and I financed giving GM an advantage over Ford and Toyota, etc. by this cash infusion. The Federal government should never be in a position of financing a competitive edge for one company over another. Also, let’s not forget that Ford decided to hold off using ‘bailout’ funds when originally offered. Seems it doesn’t pay to be honest.

Oh, and here’s another thing I fail to follow. Not only did GM offer 0% interest rate but they also reduced the credit score required for loan eligibility by more than 10%. Doesn’t this mirror what we went through with inappropriate housing mortgages ?

I thought we all had to tighten our belts and be more frugal ?

__________________
If a tree don't fall on me, I'm gonna live till I die. . .Tex Ritter

regular - member
114 posts

JD,JD,JD...[loud sigh]

I have really enjoyed your comments and insights lately, and I have cheered (from the sidelines) the way you have handled the moderator issues. However, even though IBV shook your chain pretty good with the Krugman article, I think you are being pretty cynical.

While we mainly agree on the bailout, do you really believe that the America you loved is gone and it is the socialists that did it? That is a bit melodramatic don't ya think? The history of our country has been constant, and sometimes jarring,change. The ourcome can be good or bad depending on your perspective, but the push and pull has always kept us on the path toward more freedom, more opportunity, and a better country. It is complex. It is nuanced. I know you are capable of seeing the big picture, across the geography, across the decades. Don't be so hung up on the short term. It is not as bad as it seems from your perspective right now.

And just a quick question to ponder: When the government takes control of businesses that is socialism. When the business take control of the government it is fascism. Who do you think is really in control right now? Who is really getting what they want?

__________________
How long must we sing this song?
fanatic - admin
6512 posts

Magpie, of course I understand there's "nuance" to these issues, but with the exception of you, SSHM and a handful of others here, that "nuance" gets lost in the babble of partisanship.

My point is that somewhere over the last half-century we have lost our sense of individuality and traded it in (not wholesale, but to some degree) for a national mindset of dependence and collectivism. And there's nothing wrong with that, in a limited sense, because society always has a responsiblilty to take care of those among us who CANNOT take care of themselves. But we have no responsibility for those who WILL not take care of themselves.

Call it what you want to - socialism (no, not in its purest sense), fascism (certainly not in any sense), or just plain lack of common sense by both our business leaders and our elected officials - but we've reached the point now of bailing people who have been crippled by greed, ignorance, laziness or just plain bad planning.

The ongoing "bailouts" of various industries have brought it home to a lot of us. PAPPY (from the center left) and ol' JD (from the center right) both find it APPALLING that our government has gotten itself so heavily involved in saving industries and businesses from their own excesses. In private business, if you spend more than you make, you either restructure quickly, or you go bankrupt. That's a free-market, laissez-faire philosophy that, granted, is cruel, but it works.

And, for what it's worth, I'm not as cynical as I sound. My tone in my response to the Krugman piece was tit-for-tat with his style. He HATES conservatives and free markets. He has long mocked American values. I happen to think he's wrong, no matter how many awards he wins, and I reserve to the right to mock HIS values in kind.

Personally, I've always been an optimist, and I will continue to be an optimist. Hey, I survived the Carter Administration. Four or eight years of Obamanation won't kill me, as long as the cyclical nature of political power in the United States continues to follow the course it has followed for the last six decades or so.

It wasn't that long ago that Republicans were talking about a long-lasting majority in Federal government (about a decade after Democrats were talking about the same thing in 1993 following the election of Clinton.) Now, Democrats are gleeful at the thought of their own "long-lasting" majority in the wake of the last two elections.

Reality has a way of bringing partisans down to earth quickly. I really do suspect that cyclical nature of politics will continue as long as the majority of people (and, Magpie, believe it or not I do see you as someone who is capable of seeing the absurdity of rigid political ideology) refuse to exhale and face the reality that as long as we stay at each other's throats, nothing will ever really change for the better. The Republican Party, after being slapped and poked in the eye recently by the Democrats, will return as a force in national politics, probably having learned nothing. Then the Democrats will recover, slap the Republicans, and have another go at it, also having learned nothing.

It's like a Three Stooges movie, only it's not really that funny because real lives and real people are threatened by their games. NYUK, NYUK, NYUK! OOOOH!

One thing that really ticks me off about being JDTippett - and almost thankful that his time is growing to a close - is that that particular character came aboard two and a half years ago as a "right-winger" on a forum dominated by lefties and has continued to play that role. And I'll continue to do so to the extent that my conscience will let me for as long as the screen name remains active. But, really, my heart's no longer in it.

Oddly enough, events in Anderson County over the past year or so have made it ever more difficult to play the role, though. The man behind JDTippett is not anti-tax, anti-growth, anti-progress at all. He loves museums, and recreational facilities, and tourism - and has worked hard on all those things over the years in real life.

In other words, the viciousness and vindictiveness of the Cindy Wilson supporters (who had a very valid point about her being deprived of information on a timely basis) bother me far more than the lame defenses the Prestonites continue to offer for his shenanigans. Over the course of the past couple of years, I've tried to be objective, pointing out the laws themselves to back up my opinions and, at times, siding with BOTH of the two warring factions. That's why JDTippett has trouble lining up a good chess match with ATZ members lately. Frown

I'm glad you've enjoyed some of my responses here, Magpie, but the bottom line is, you should know that even I don't agree with some of what I say. Sometimes, I throw stuff out there just to see where it leads - and then laugh to myself when I draw out the usual suspects..Laughing.

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"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
fanatic - member
2368 posts

Me Too ! On just about every line JD wrote above.

fanatic - member
3854 posts

Wink

Me Too ! On just about every line JD wrote above.

-republikin

Har-dee-Har-Har!

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Designated President of the Warm & Fuzzy Club. DBAA
fanatic - admin
1163 posts
The only difference is, Ann Coulter has a sense of humor.

-jdtippett



How many Nobel Prizes does Ann Coulter have?

That's what I thought.
fanatic - admin
6512 posts

She has exactly zero Nobel Prizes, Jack, or one fewer than Jimmy Carter and the same number most of the rest of us have. That honor actually used to mean something, you know, but I personally pay little or no attention to it nowadays since they gave one to Yassir Arafat a dozen year or so ago.

Krugman is an economist, you know. It's said you can take every economist in the world and lay them end to end, and you still can't reach a consensus. Laughing

(Good grief, I need to stop listening to Caroline Kennedy interviews. I just used "you know" twice in consecutive pargraphs. If I keep that up, I'll be using it six times in one sentence.)

Jack, where have you been lately? Isn't it about time for you to jump back into the fray and get your head bashed in like the rest of us are doing? I'm going to have to reclassify you from MIA to AWOL eventually, you know, and send the MPs after you.

__________________
"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
superstar - member
861 posts

She may not have any norbert prizes, but she is funny most of the time

__________________
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” William Pitt
fanatic - admin
1163 posts

She may not have any norbert prizes, but she is funny most of the time


-noeline



If you say so. She is a bigot and a liar.
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