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Who are these people, how did we get here and who is to blame?

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I was asked what makes a Democrat and what makes a Republican? This young person also asked who is to blame for our current situation. Of course before answering I went on line and began to research this question so my answer would be less biased.

I found some interesting stuff. The following links give the 2004 party goals and then the 2008 candidates/party goals.


Democrats
http://ontheissues.org/Dem_Platform_2004...
Republicans
http://ontheissues.org/2004_GOP_Platform...

For 2008 this was one of the more informative web sites on issues and party core values. The following is not in list format but you can click on a topic and get the party lines.

 

Democratshttp://ontheissues.org/Dem_Platform_2004...Republicanshttp://ontheissues.org/2004_GOP_Platform...

 

I also looked at historic gains and losses in mid-term elections (Bush really killed his party in 2006 LOL)

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/mid-term_elections.php

 

These are the stats for 2008 (I copied and pasted obviously but lost the web page to site)

The blame issue became more balanced as I began wading through various votes over the past 16.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/who_caused_the_economic_crisis.html

 

For fun I thought I would share, without a conclusion least I be accused of finding an article that supported my view. <g>

 

So here is the question;What is the difference in the parties, how did we get here and who is to blame?

 

And the challenge; (yes I am being pompous), without name calling, making derogatory comments about one person or another (SSHM & Wyatt and of course Sweet pea and me) and without being rude, crude and socially unacceptable, I would enjoy reading the input, evaluations and relevant articles people use to support their theory or view. 

Anyone game? The person who asked is in college and a first time voter confused by the two party system and the policies and economic behind this latest debacle.

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I don't waste time "researching" others evaluations of the fiasco.  As a child of the 50's I have watched it in action.  BUT, you did refer to "input"...so here goes. 

The GOP has been the front runners of tending to the whims of the rich ever since the Great Depression. The underlying policy seems to be look out for the CEO's and political contributors, the business of oil and war-machinisms, while the nation has headed slowly down the slippery slope of third worldliness since Vietnam.  The presidential leadership has done some pretty underhanded dealings with little repercussions. Deals like using false intel to create Iraqi war, or George Bush with Karl Rove, or going back further with  Iran-Contra weapons deals, with Reagan at the helm ( and subsequent pardons blanket-issued by another GOP president GWB), or Nixon/Watergate with bobblehead Carter also tossing out pardons at a cost. Unemployment is always higher with a GOP in control, and nine out of then times there is some war, conflict or crisis brewing to keep the weapons manufacturing businesses humming.

The Dems have been the supporters of a welfare-state since that time as well, tossing funding and socialism-in-kind programs like welfare, equal-rights placed above skill or earned values,  The Dems are also not without their share of scandals and corruption ( Ted Kennedy leads that pack, but lets not forget Clinton/whitewater/monica-gate, along with NUMEROUS senatorial sex, drug and payoff scandals, latest one being Blagojevic).  Many players in the Democratic party have great intentions, but get involved with so many poor judgement calls it takes away from any policy changes done  under the guise of the good.

Obama faces the greatest and undenyably deepest crisis we've faced since the 20's.  The job market, banking and financial industries, aging society,  education system, infrastructure and foreign policies all need to be tossed, re-written and enhanced.  He has the capacity to either make history as the greatest leader ever, or another in the long line of Democratic failures of this country

If you're lookling for "blame",  then blame the Electoral College.  Presidential elections should be done by popular vote, let the PEOPLE speak for whom they feel is the better candidate, not this Super-delegate crap.

 

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Wyatt, child of the 50's, come on/ I  believe the economy goes in cycles like the weather.   We've always had a mixed gov't  so to blame either party makes no sense to me.   But I think we are having a strong wake up call for bad decisions.  I hope it will pull us together, but so far it seems to be driving us apart.  We have been spoiled I think we will finally have to tighten our belts and be real.   Sorry, but we need to not go to movies or support sports because they are 2 of the most unrealistic groups of salaries there are.  We bitch about medical fees, sorry but they at least save lives.

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I don't waste time "researching" others evaluations of the fiasco. As a child of the 50's I have watched it in action. BUT, you did refer to "input"...so here goes.

 


-wyatt1sc



Interesting you answer with a dig. Did you know the Electoral College can be traced to the Centurial Assembly system of the Roman Republic? As you sited unemployment here is an interesting view.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122792327402265913.html

War records, this was the most easy readable history I found. (BTW, not the first piece I read <g>) I can't say I agree with all the sentiments attached as this author is obviously slanted to the right but the time lines are correct and I didn't want to find a statistics chart no one would look at for war history.

I enjoy reading because while I have lived much of this, my perspective and age allow for an opinion not necessarily based on history, facts and figures. Having just turned 50, you my friend are right there too. LOL



Abraham Lincoln a Republican President freed the Black Slaves of America along with the rest of the Republicans that fought for the North. The Democrats were for continuing the blacks as slaves even the Democrats that lived in the Northern states. It was the Confederacy that susceeded from the Union and started the Civil War when Lincoln won the election because they knew Lincoln would push Congress to abolish Slavery in the USA. Lincoln was the first Republican President. The Republicans have always been against slavery and for human rights for all races and still are.

Theodore Roosevelt a Republican bought the Panama Canal zone from the French and built the Panama Canal. Teddy also started the National Park system of the USA and the first National Park in the whole world, was Yellow Stone National Park. Teddy gave Yellow Stone Park to all citizens of the USA. Now many countries all over the world have started National Parks. Republicans were the first party for the environment starting with Teddy. Teddy also delivered the "Square Deal and regulation of industry". Which helped the working classes. BTW it was crazy and stupid Jimmy Carter a Democrat President that gave away the Panama Canal zone for nothing.

Thomas Woodrow Wilson a Democrat President led America into WWI. Warren G. Harding a Republican President led us from WWI into "nomalcy". President Harding led the country away from Wilson's socialistic views and returned it to the Capitalistic systems and freedom we all love, with the greatest landslide Presidential election victory in USA history.

Franklin D. Roosevelt a Democrat President led the USA into WWII. Dwight D. Eisenhower a Republican President as General and Commander of all the Armed forces of the USA led the USA to victory over Germany and Japan so America could keep the freedom we now have. Roosevelt died before WWII ended but Eisenhower won the war anyways.

Harry S. Truman a Democrat President was vice-President under FDR and took over the Presidency when FDR died in office. Truman gave away most of Eastern Europe to Russia at the end of WWII. The USA won the war but Truman was too soft and inexperienced (sounds like Obama doesn't it, that's what happens facing Communist countries like Russia with soft Presidents), so Truman faced an international crisis at the end of WWII, he couldn't handle it and he lost most of Eastern Europe to Russia in negotiations, which started the cold war with Russia. Then just a few years later Truman led the USA into the Korean War. "The war remained a frustrating stalemate for two years, with over 30,000 Americans killed, until a peace agreement restored borders and ended the conflict.[127] In the interim, the difficulties in Korea and the popular outcry against Truman's sacking of MacArthur helped to make the president so unpopular that Democrats started turning to other candidates." wikipedia.org

Lyndon B. Johnson a Democrat President led the USA into the Vietnam War. Richard Nixon a Republican President led the USA out of Vietnam and ended the Draft. Nixon also opened the doors to trading with China.

Reagan and George Bush both Republican Presidents won the cold war against Russia and freed Eastern Europe, that truman gave away to Russia, without firing a shot. They built the "big stick" which included the Military Machine we have today including the Stealth Bombers and fighters, again so we Americans can all be free instead of bowing to a Communist Dictator like Castro or Stalin. Reagan and George Bush also improved the economy to great and new heigths that was totally destroyed under Jimmy Carter's, a Democrat President,with Carter's extremely high taxes and the running of the printing presses that caused run away inflation. (This is why many see Barack Hussein Obama as another Jimmy Carter, it has already been tried in the USA and failed miserably. This is not change nor nothing new. It is just a return to the failed policies of Jimmy Carter)

George Bush also won the Gulf war against Iraq and Sadam Hussein. Freeing Kuwait. But did not enter Iraq.

George W. Bush a Republican President has won the war over Sadam Hussein, toppled his radical dictatorship, stopped the terrorism that Sadam's Regime trained and financed with Al Queda in Iraq. George W Bush has won that war with the "Surge" and has placed a new Iraq Democracy in the Middle East with hopes to grow that democracy in other countries, thereby ending the Radical Muslim strongholds of Al Queda and others, and bring freedom to the good Muslims that live there. The Economy was great under George W Bush for his first six years with only 6% unemployed (BTW it's only about 6% unemployed even now amongst all this market melt down), but then the Democrats took over Congress and the Senate the last two years, and the economy has gone into the tank under the Democrats leadership with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Ried along with Barny Frank that have destroyed it. The market melt down all started with subprime loans that Obama and Acorn and Bill Clinton all democrats thought were a good idea. So Bill Clinton, a Democrat President deregulated the banking system so they would make loans to people who couldn't qualify nor pay the payments. And Obama with Acorn pressured those banks to make those subprime loans that caused this market melt down.

In summary: Did you noticed that it was the Democrats: Wilson that led us into WWI, FDR that led us into WWII, Truman that led us into the Korean War, and LBJ that led us into Vietnam, and all those wars were fought with huge losses of drafted American Soldiers lives. It was the Republicans that led us out of and won the wars the Democrats put us into and also ended the draft. The two Bushes won both of their wars with almost no human losses in comparison.

I would add let's all not forget things that failed, like the bay of pigs & funding Castro as a "freedom fighter". Yes there are others like that we can pull out.  Perhaps what you are saying is the problem with politics are politicians?

Wyatt chimed in, anyone else care to take a stab at a fair an balanced answer? 

PS I just noticed that the ad on this page is "GWB IQ is 125, are you smarter than GWB?" Well as he was a lousy "C" student I would suggest it isn't IQ, it's ability, can we get an entrance exam for all candidates? ROTFL
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You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. ~Author Unknown
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I fail students who use Wikipedia.

The Republican party had as one of its initial planks the end of slavery, but not all Democrats were "pro-slave." There were two different Democratic parties at the time. See the election of 1860 (not on wikipedia). These two wings of the party traced their roots back to Jeffersonian Democracy. The modern day Democratic party is generally held to have begun with Andrew Jackson. The modern day Republican party is generally traced back to a split during the 1912 election.

I would argue that it was German U boats and the Zimmerman telegram that "led" us to WWI and Pearl Harbor that led us into WWII, or would you have had us ignore all that and the Holocaust? And I thought I was a peace-loving hippie.

LBJ did not lead us into Vietnam. Again, stop using Wikipedia, anything edited by the masses it full of worthless information. It's like thinking everything on ATZ is true. The Vietnam conflict traced its roots back to 1946 when President TRUMAN helped support the French in their attempt to recolonize Vietnam after the war. When the French gave up in 1954, President EISENHOWER supported the free south Vietnamese in there efforts to remain free of the communist North. In 1960, President KENNEDY continued this policy by increasing the number of advisers in Vietnam. In 1965, President JOHNSON greatly increased American involvement by putting regular army forces on the ground in Vietnam and starting bombing runs on North Vietnamese cities. President NIXON expanded the war to neighboring nations before bringing the war to an end in 1973.

Those are just a few problems with your analysis, but I don't have the time tonight to take it line by line. I would be happy to later though.

Neither history nor politics is simple, and neither will ever be simple. "Black and white" thinking is an epidemic in this country that can only be cured by education. Both parties have made massive errors, and both parties have done amazing things. We have to stop this "us and you" mentality. When GW Bush was elected, I was not pleased, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. How about doing the same for Obama? Do all of you Republicans really WANT to be right about him? Wouldn't that mean that we all lose?

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And for more information on why wikipedia is ridiculous, see Steven Colbert's attempt at "saving" the African Elephant.

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2715 posts

From the lack of responses, I'd guess not many are willing to post to believe your slant on the topic. Thats okay, it was simply MY opinion and not using "scientific data" everyone loves to clip & paste.  So much was left out of your analysis in deciding whom/what began what wars, what party was in control of Congress during each administration you cited, and the increase/decrease of individual & cooperative citizen benefits from each one you listed ( better wages, less poverty, increased employment, domestic GNP, balanced budgets, world trade issues, better human rights, better world opinion, party unity, the list goes on).  It's easy to assign blame to another party if you want. Obviously you are a GOP supporter, just by your bash against Obama, who has YET to even take office to either prove or disprove himself. I am not a fan of the GOP policies. 

 I guess I HAVE to start using the clip&paste links to dispute your points.....

Sorry, GWB did NOT win ANY war in Iraq, unless you believed his banner flying over the carrier USS Abraham Lincoln after his announcement of that "win".  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Accomplished.  Last I checked, over 120,000 troops still occupy Iraq, with a high probability of total collapse & failure once we leave ( in about 5 years...)  and the next lesson in poor military intelligence  and guerrilla tactics is about to begin in Afghanistan.    Fighting wars nowadays involves advanced technology which didn't exist during the Civil War/WWI/WWII/Korea, even Vietnam. Push a button and launch an attack from an Apache, or send a UAV Predator or Reaper armed with Stingers or Hellfire missiles and kill from 2500 miles away.  So naturally American soldier deaths are lesser.  But tell that to the upwards of 80,000 civilian casualties caught up in those battles. The costs of this "war" are in the 5 trillion dollar mark( thats with a "T"-rillions) and not over yet.  The entire cost of WWII, in several world-wide theatres of fighting and including the losses of nearly an entire fleet in Pearl Harbor, were a total of $2 Trillion in adjusted dollars.   http://www.threeworldwars.com/overview.htm

Still, the Democrats ain't angels neither.  Unfortunately, no political office has an "intelligence test" to apply.

 

 

 

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Sorry Virginia, I simply used Wikipedia for the Banner story, not for anything more.  But then again, I use "politics for Dummies" too
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Designated President of the Warm & Fuzzy Club. DBAA
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I guess you can pass then ;)

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with today's extremely low level of academic standards, even my dumb@ss would pass!!!!
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