Bonnie WIlliams editorial and JDTippett response

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-cindycurmudgeon

GOOD GRIEF - WALL-O-TEXT

I moved here 20 years ago. When I first saw 'straight talk' I couldn't believe that a responsible newspaper would publish anonymous messages. I am glad to see it go. The physical "Printed Newspaper" is a tree eating dinosaur and will soon be extinct. Change is inevitable, get used to it.

This forum is one of many (really many many many) public forums. If you don't have a modicum of moderation you will be inundated with spam, porn, flame wars and general unpleasantness. It needs a moderation team. I don't believe that the mods have EVER imposed restrictions on freedom of speech. I do believe they have stopped a few folks from shouting fire in a crowded theater.

I know that the moderators are paid very well. I saw Pappy and his Mrs. driving a pair of brand new cherry red 2009 BMW SUVs the other day. It is in their personal interest to spend hours and hours here, since they are paid more than $9000.00 per hour. The more time they spend, the more money they make.

That last paragraph is not true, btw.

-g-papadopolis

When I logged on and saw this thread today, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Still don't. But I'll respond.

Cindycurmudgeon's response seems to have been triggered by something I said to Angel yesterday regarding how the credibility of this board has been damaged significantly by those from both sides who say something that is unproven is true, then post as if their wisdom overrides all else. Here's the exact comment, from the threat "Riots.":

For what it's worth, the buyout of Preston and the hiring of Cunningham remain totally lawful until and unless someone in a position of higher authority - or a judge and jury - deem otherwise. You're repeating that they were "unlawful" does not make it so.

Angel, Prevail's post represents the kind of rhetoric I was pointing to when I talked about the credibility of this forum being undermined - by BOTH sides of the issue. Slash-and-burn politics. They'll call something "unlawful" then repeat that in subsequent posts over and over, convincing themselves it's true and hoping everybody else will accept it as truth without a shred of evidence. When, ultimately, nothing comes of it from a legal standpoint, they move on to something else and pretend they were right anyway.

For now, the buyout of Preston and the hiring of Cunningham were all perfectly legal and lawful. The passage of time may or may not change that fact, but, for now, it is a fact.

-jdtippett

I want you to notice two things about that statement.

First, I referenced "both sides" in the post, indicating that we're all guilty of that sometimes in our discussions of various issues. Some just take it to extremes and have developed it as an art form.

Second, nowhere does that post - whether you read it as a member response or as a moderator response - does it say that no one can say something that's not truthful here. It simply pointed out that the person who called Joey Preston's buyout and Michael Cunningham's hiring "unlawful" was jumping the gun on that determination. I even noted that they may ultimately prove to be "unlawful" - but, for now, they are not.

I understand the frustration of the far Right. I feel it myself every time I hear George Bush called a "war criminal" or every time I hear somebody say Bush "lied" to get us into Iraq despite the fact that every major intelligence agency on earth, every nation that backed us in that effort, and the majority of Congress, including Democrats, voted FOR that action. More locally, I feel it everytime somebody uses Cindy Wilson's testimony in prior court proceeding to indicate that she got every answer she sought from Joey Preston and, therefore, Anderson County government IS open despite the protestations of some, including the media, that some of that information was given long after the need for it had passed.

And NOWHERE in my brief post did I indicate that spreading lies, or using unproven allegations as truth as political bludgeons, is prohibited here. I just identified it for what it was. In fact, let the debate continue. BUT DON'T EXPECT UNTRUTHS AND HALF-TRUTHS TO STAND UNCHALLENGED.

Now, let me addess the relationship between ATZ and the staff/ownership at the AIM. It is tenuous, at best, but it is important. The only DIRECT tie remaining is that the default website address - www.andersontalkzone.com - is registered to The Anderson Independent through 2011. The underlying website address is still a Lefora site, although typing in the Lefora address automatically refers one to this site.

WE TAKE NO DIRECTION OR INSTRUCTION from the AIM, although I can assure you there are times when such guidance would be most appreciated and graciously followed. As you can see, the AIM's current direction is to move away totally from anonymous posting through StraightTalk and on their daily website. We, on the other hand, are doing our best to survive as a community forum where anonymous or, at the very least, semi-anonymous posting is allowed and encouraged.

I do agree with Cindycurmudeon on one thing. I, too, have always cringed at the idea of allowing anonymous posters to appear in the daily printed publication. Over the past two and a half years, there have been many things posted on The Cocklebur/Anderson Talkzone that will never see the light of day in the AIM, and that is a it should be. I've posted things here that I wouldn't submit to the AIM for print publication - not necessarily because I didn't know them to be true, but because I couldn't properly source then.

For now, the difference between AIM, with the death of StraightTalk, and Anderson Talkzone is that members here can still post those items of dubious credibility, as long as they aren't libelous or slanderous. When somebody posts something that should stir up debate or corrections, it falls to other members to correct the mistakes, provide truth to the untruths, and, if we're dealing with purely opinions, to provide the other side of the argument.

Unlike Cindycurmudgeon's perception, nobody has told anybody here they can't post lies or distortions of the truth, annoying as they may be to some. But no one should be expected to do so unchallenged. Prevail posted something yesterday that JDTippett challenged. Cindycurmudgeon has objected because, God help us all, no one is allowed to challenge her (his?)  vision of world domination.

Here's the unpleasant truth, though. There IS a small group of members of Anderson Talkzone who remain angry that the AIM didn't jump on the bandwagon of every single one of their allegations regarding the Cater's Lake issues in 2006 and refused to chase every rumor, every claim, during that investigation. That same group, not surprisingly, is upset that the AIM often takes a leftward tilt in its editorial pages.

That group wants to see the AIM fail, and they want to destroy anybody who stands in the way of their political aims for Anderson County - which, as nearly as I can tell, basically means replacing the old set of "good ol' boys" with their own set of "good ol' boys" and taking out the ousted "good ol' boys" and hanging them from the neareset tree.

JDTippett - the member, not the moderator - has in the past been agreeable to ousting Joey Preston and replacing him with another administrator to allow Anderson County move beyond the anger and the hostility that has developed over the years. But I'm not in favor of destroying anybody, politically or, especially, personally. THAT'S A PERSONAL OPINION. It has nothing to do with moderation or who can say what here.

This website continues to exist courtesy of the Anderson Independent-Mail. Our status could change at any time, but be assured that nothing we have done here, as moderators, has anything to do with what the AIM has done. That fact that we may at times seem to be following the same path indicates to me that perhaps there's something to Bonnie Williams' assertion that some people just don't understand that "free speech" does carry with it some responsibility that people like Cindycurmudgeon does not understand.

Here are two comments from the Bonnie Williams editorial of a couple of days ago that are particularly pertinent to what we face here:

"All too often, we’ve had people who spread the same comment across our Web site, regardless of the story, simply in an attempt to degrade someone else or spread a rumor. Those few are to blame. No one else. We appreciate those who offer constructive comments. But free speech doesn’t mean someone is allowed to deliberately spread rumors, lie, exaggerate or try to create controversy for his or her own amusement.

That is NOT the business of this forum, Prevail. This forum is for all viewpoints, and some of those viewpoints including defending Preston, Cunningham, Floyd and Ron Wilson while blasting Rick Driver, Cindy Wilson, Bob Waldrep and others.

It's called a discussion, or debate. You present one side of it; others present the other side. That is as it should be. Accept it.