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The new plan for "fixing" the financial mess

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fanatic - member
1262 posts

Any one out there have a clue what it contains?

I listened to both Obama and McCain on the stump discussing what they would do if they were president. How many of these good suggestions from both sides will be included in the new plan. Not many I would bet.

fanatic - admin
6536 posts

Haven't read the entire thing, Petunia - which is no problem, because I seriously doubt any of the Senators who'll vote on this thing later today have either. Nevertheless, I'll give it my best shot here and hope I can answer your question.

Among other things, this bill:

1. Is pretty much the same underlying bill that bombed in the House two days ago, although there is less power transfered to the U.S Secretary of the Treasury and modifications on provisions that would have put Congress in charge of the American banking industry.

2. Increases the FDIC coverage on personal accounts from $100,000 to $250,000, which is something both McCain and Obama have called for in recent days. That's primarily to prevent a pre-Christmas run on the banks of the type that almost doomed Jimmy Stewart in "It's a Wonderful Life." (Rember that one? One of my favorites of all time.) I personally think this is a good idea, although I'll acknowledge they will be increasing taxpayer exposure in the event of a banking collapse by 250% in one fell swoop (Think "savings & loan scandal" circa 1987.)

3. Postpones the devastating impact of the Alternative Minimum Tax for a year to give Congress time to fix that ticking timebomb. (That's a long, complicated issue, Petunia, and if I get into too much explanation of that here I'm going to draw SSHM's "Wall of Text" macro.

4. Provides billions of dollars in tax credits for the development of alternative energy sources (Democrats love that one, Republicans are indifferent) while extending tax breaks and tax incentives to the big oil companies for expanding domestic sources of petroleum (Republicans love that one, Democrats don't.)

Of particular interest as this thing moves along is the structure of Item 4. It's my understanding that those items will cost somewhere north of $110 billion - that's OVER AND ABOVE THE UNDERLYING $700 billion bill - and that it is only partially offset by other tax increases (as the Democrats always demand) and spending cuts (as Repbulicans always demand.)

The idea is to push this one through with a veto-proof majority of the Senate (i.e., 60 more votes in favor) and shove it to the House of Representatives for a vote tomorrow. There are goodies for everybody in there.

The irony of it is that these jokers - four weeks before an election in which one-third of the members of the U.S. Senate and all members of the House of Representiatives are up for re-election - have taken a $700 billion boondoggle that failed by 11 votes in the House two days ago and turned it into an $800+ billion boondoggle that should pass in the Senate later today and may pass by a handful of votes in the House tomorrow.

In effect, they're larding up a very, very bad bill with a few very good ideas (increasing FDIC maximum and deadling with the AMT problem) to get it passed. Business as usual in Washingon.

Only they don't call it "business as usual." They call that PROGRESS and FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY.Surprised

You might say they've put lipstick on a pig, and they're now trying to tell us it's not really a pig no matter how much weight it's gained on the way to market. Kiss

 

__________________
"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
fanatic - member
1262 posts

That is pretty much what thought. I guess puts me for some kind of plan but not this one either. I know time is short to make the maximum impact with out too much damage. I would hate to be the member of Congress making that vote but I would hope in this instance they would do what it best for the taxpayers and not what will get them re elected.
fanatic - member
2351 posts

How will Obama pay for new spending?

by ROBERT NOVAK novakevans@aol.com

How would Barack Obama pay for the $800 billion that John McCain claimed in the first presidential debate Sept. 26 in Oxford, Miss., that his Democratic opponent would spend if he were elected president? Obama replied, by "closing tax loopholes."

Obama was no more specific in the debate, and tax experts doubt that structural changes without increasing taxes can raise anything close to that amount of money.

My office asked the Obama campaign for the details, and it responded with a 19-page single-spaced paper on the candidate's "tax plans."

In fact, there was precious little about tax policy in the paper, which amounted to a repeat of Democratic campaign oratory that can be heard in 30-second speeches before both houses of Congress daily on C-SPAN.

Obama has made clear that he would try to roll back President Bush's tax cuts, but that does not come under the definition of a "loophole." A loophole consists of a conniving tax attorney discovering a weakness in the Internal Revenue Code or such a weakness intentionally legislated by Congress under the instigation of crafty lobbyists. The only specific tax legislation contained in his paper would raise the capital gains rate for most shareholders, restore taxation on dividend income to pre-Bush standards and restore the full estate tax.

These were not loopholes but presidential proposals enacted by Congress. The Obama paper paints a picture of lobbyists running wild on Capitol Hill but neglects to assess the impact on the economy during the current financial crisis of taking a serious strike against the stockholding public.

Obama's dividends and capital gains proposals appear to be a major attempt at redistribution of income rather than a serious attempt to pay for the spending that he has proposed.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/novak/1197330,CST-EDT-novak02.article

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The voice for the free blogers! Mr. Hankey is your martyr! Eventus stultorum magister. 30/30-150 Remembers!
regular - member
111 posts

The body of this letter was faxed to every SC Congressman and 2 Senators this morning.


2 October 2008

Congressman Bob Inglis 202.226.1177
Congressman Gresham Barrett 202-225-3216
Congressman Jim Clyburn 202.225.2313
Congressman John Spratt 202-225-0464
Congressman Henry Brown 202.225.3407
Congressman Joe Wilson 202.225.2455
Senator Jim DeMint 202-228-5143
Senator Lindsey Graham 202.224.3808

Via facsimile
Subject: The Bailout Bill

Congressman of South Carolina,

PLEASE VOTE NO!

We are extremely disappointed in the Senate leadership rushing to push though a bill that guarantees nothing, does not address the underlying issues that created the financial crisis this country faces and which took less time to craft (spending $800 Bn in tax dollars) than the time it took to consider legislating steroids in baseball. We recognize a short term fix needs to occur however haste makes waste. All credibility is lost with the Federal Reserve and the Treasury leadership. We do not believe the same people who told us the bail out of Bear Sterns, Freddie, Fannie, AIG, et al would ‘solve the problem’ know what they are talking about in term of this next bailout plan being the panacea. Paulson and Bernake need to go ! Our elected representatives need clear heads, to consult with economic specialists who can actually see both the tress and the forest , and most importantly to listen to the voice of the people. Your 'party' did not elect you, and it cannot save you if those who did become disenchanted. The voice of the people should determine how you cast your vote, NOT THE PARTY, on what will likely be the single most important piece of legislation by our leaders in the history of these United States.

Through the passage of this singular piece of legislation we will have witnessed the beginning of the end of our country as our forefathers intended it to be. Should this bill pass we shall have brought forth not a great nation but rather the final stages of the socialization of America. We hope the HOUSE can save us from taking the wrong fork in this all too important road. Rest assured, your vote will be remembered not only at election time but for generations to come. Senator Graham has lost the balance of our remaining support, and Senator Jim DeMint our appreciation for standing firm in the face of this crisis.

Please let cooler heads prevail. Surely this great country can afford the extra days it may take to craft a legitimate problem-solving approach to this financial crisis rather than responding to the yell of "FIRE' in a crowded theatre? The foreclosure cycle is 18 months to 2 years, hence the issue at hand is 2-4 years old which would indicate these banks have been hiding' their true solvency for quite some time, and yet now it's a crisis? It took us years to get here; the problem cannot be solved in less than 72 hours with this egregious stroke of a pen.

HOUSE MEMBERS PLEASE VOTE NO!

__________________
The single most exciting thing you encounter in government is competence, because it's so rare. - Daniel P. Moynihan
regular - member
164 posts

I for one, hope that this faxed letter got caught up in fax heaven and did not make it to it's intended receipiants. This is 100% NOT the way I want to be represented in Washington. If this Rescue Plan does not get approval tomorrow - then our entire economic system will be in ruins AND the rest of the world will follow suit. I too, want the cooler heads to prevail. I just want the Representatives to look past their noses and to yours and my future!

__________________
May every dog have it's day.
fanatic - member
2351 posts

Do you really think that the economy will crash tomorrow if the dill weeds don’t pass this tonight? The only reason for the slow economy today is everyone is holding their hand back until the big (government) money is dished out. Keep telling them the money is coming and the will not do a thing to help themselves until they get their payday from us.
Get real it’s mostly hype. To think this group of idiots running the show can stop this from happening is a joke. And that big joke is on us. The US tax payer.

__________________
The voice for the free blogers! Mr. Hankey is your martyr! Eventus stultorum magister. 30/30-150 Remembers!
fanatic - member
3878 posts

Too late roomies, the economy ALREADY has collapsed. Your 401(k) is worth about as much as a bag of aluminum cans at Carolina recycle. Your home values are right there with a mexican mud-hut. Car sales are at a 15 year low and d ropping faster than paris hilton's panties at Snoop dog's party. Our mega-corporations are now owned by "third world" nations who's individual net worth is more than our entire nation. We've spent money which doesn't even exist and spending a trillion more with no regard on how it's gonna be repaid or recovered.  CEO's are reaping profits at the expense of workers making wages comparable to a 30's-era family. I wanna know how I sign up for this boondoggle frakking-over of taxpayers, and get MY debts paid off and receive a couple-million-dollar payoff at the same time.

Inquiring minds wanna know...........

__________________
Designated President of the Warm & Fuzzy Club. DBAA
superstar - member
305 posts


Too late roomies, the economy ALREADY has collapsed. Your 401(k) is worth about as much as a bag of aluminum cans at Carolina recycle. Your home values are right there with a mexican mud-hut. Car sales are at a 15 year low and d ropping faster than paris hilton's panties at Snoop dog's party. Our mega-corporations are now owned by "third world" nations who's individual net worth is more than our entire nation. We've spent money which doesn't even exist and spending a trillion more with no regard on how it's gonna be repaid or recovered.  CEO's are reaping profits at the expense of workers making wages comparable to a 30's-era family. I wanna know how I sign up for this boondoggle frakking-over of taxpayers, and get MY debts paid off and receive a couple-million-dollar payoff at the same time.

Inquiring minds wanna know...........

-wyatt1sc

Vote for OBMAMA........

He's got all the answers. He just won't tell us the big plans he has until we give him the keys to the WhiteHouse.....

We're suppost to trust him..........He's gonna make it all better.

I wanna know when my credit card bailout plan is going to pass...........
I see everyone else is getting help, the wooden arrow makers, exxon valdes fisherman, some rum maker in Puerto Rico.........

In that 400+ pages, I am sure someone thought of me.......right?

__________________
Hell has frozen over. Get out the ice skates.
fanatic - member
3878 posts

Sorry, I'd vote for Yo'MAMA  before I'd ever consider voting another Republican back into the front office!  Every time one of these dumb*sses runs this show, we go bankrupt, we are at war, inflation rises and wages fall, gas and utilities skyrocket, unemployment numbers and the national debt increases exponentially.

I'd rather support arrow makers, voodoo priestesses and belly-rubbing rum runners than already rich buttholes who think it's fine to skru over the working class till they squeel like a tennessee farmboy.  And why should bama share his plans now, McPailin will just steal them and call them origional thoughts ( because he read it off cue-cards...)

__________________
Designated President of the Warm & Fuzzy Club. DBAA
fanatic - member
2351 posts

Well if you ride your bike to work you can get a tax credit & or money from your employer!
thats bycycle not motorcycle.
WTF.

So glad they passed this pice of Hankey soooo fast.

Time for a total clean out in the senate don't you think.
not that it would matter they are all set for life anyway.

__________________
The voice for the free blogers! Mr. Hankey is your martyr! Eventus stultorum magister. 30/30-150 Remembers!
fanatic - member
2351 posts

Obama has not one original thought. he is all hope for change bull crap.
just look at him talk down to everyone every time he opens his mouth.
goo ahead and vote Obuma. we could rreally use a good sociolist now that they have control over our homes.

__________________
The voice for the free blogers! Mr. Hankey is your martyr! Eventus stultorum magister. 30/30-150 Remembers!
superstar - member
305 posts

Wyatt - what you don't realize is that the person in the front office is powerless to do anything unless the Senate and House pass these laws first.

Let's see, how long have the Democrats controlled things in that arena during years when a Republican was in the Front office? Most of GWBush's run, and during the Regan year's most of that I think.

Your precoius democrats are the ones who contiually ruin economies.
Tax, Spend and hand out to all the people who "need help". Yea, the lazy one's who sit on their butts, having babies by the dozens, smokin crack, stealing, and collecting unemployment.

You go look at any democratic haven and you'll see that even when they control an area, taxes and spending are out of control.
I recall yo being from Utica, NY. How are things up in the Democratic eden of the Northeast? I am sure taxes are low, the middleclass has plenty of money to spend and everyone has a job. Am I right?
Wrong.....I looked up you former local paper there.....the local county administrator said to expect a double digit increase in property taxes. I did some more research and just to inform you and others on this blog that a home of 150000.00 has a property tax bill of about 4000 + depending on the locality there. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You want to turn this country around? Throw out every Senator, House Rep and install term limits. 2 terms and you are done. You can't run again ever for that same job level. The OLD Fart entrenched washington regulars are really running the show. Their numbers are so far down the toilet drain that even GWBush's numbers are far better. But everyone keeps putting the same Jokers back there to F#$# up the system.
Do I sound Pissed...........Freakin Right.......Sick of the same S***.

__________________
Hell has frozen over. Get out the ice skates.
?
611 posts

I found some informing info at this site. Read the first article "Who's Really Responsible For Fannie and Freddie Chaos."

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org:80/authors/id.86/author_detail.asp

superstar - member
386 posts

I thought this might help explain in plain terms some common question
recession
http://economics.about.com/od/recessions/a/budget_deficits.htm

and another on economic depression
http://useconomy.about.com/od/grossdomesticproduct/f/Depression.htm

http://www.helium.com/items/1172564-what-is-an-economic-depression

If you have time you can watch this

http://moneyandmarkets.stream57.com/August6/default.aspx

It's from the spring but it's informative and basically predicted the failure of Wachovia.

Hope this helps - enjoy.

fanatic - member
3878 posts

Wyatt - what you don't realize is that the person in the front office is powerless to do anything unless the Senate and House pass these laws first.

Let's see, how long have the Democrats controlled things in that arena during years when a Republican was in the Front office? Most of GWBush's run, and during the Regan year's most of that I think.

Your precious democrats are the ones who continually ruin economies.
Tax, Spend and hand out to all the people who "need help". Yea, the lazy one's who sit on their butts, having babies by the dozens, smokin crack, stealing, and collecting unemployment.

You go look at any democratic haven and you'll see that even when they control an area, taxes and spending are out of control.
I recall yo being from Utica, NY. How are things up in the Democratic eden of the Northeast? I am sure taxes are low, the middleclass has plenty of money to spend and everyone has a job. Am I right?
Wrong.....I looked up you former local paper there.....the local county administrator said to expect a double digit increase in property taxes. I did some more research and just to inform you and others on this blog that a home of 150000.00 has a property tax bill of about 4000 + depending on the locality there. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You want to turn this country around? Throw out every Senator, House Rep and install term limits. 2 terms and you are done. You can't run again ever for that same job level. The OLD Fart entrenched washington regulars are really running the show. Their numbers are so far down the toilet drain that even GWBush's numbers are far better. But everyone keeps putting the same Jokers back there to F#$# up the system.
Do I sound Pissed...........Freakin Right.......Sick of the same S***.


-voice-of-reason

Welp, used to live in that gawd-forsaken hellhole of upstate New Yuck, but found out reeeeeeally quick that unless i had three jobs, my wife had two, lived with rich relatives and hid my assets from pataki, I couldn't afford my monthly oil heating bills. 

The figurehead in the Oval Office DOES have the power to do alll kinds of garbage, like veto tax relief, initiate wars, enact legislation to protect big oil and mega-corps, and wage secret alliances.  I'm NOT protecting these Dumbocraps either, I think the whole system is corrupt, morally flawed, mentally stagnant and a failure of the roots of this nation. There's so much smoke & mirrors with Congress and the Senate that I constantly feel like I'm at a David Copperfield show!  But I must say this, with EVERY Dem who's run this country, there was little or no war, good to excellent employment numbers, a reasonable level of inflation and a chance that us po' folks would see a tax return in our favor.  I know when Wild Bill Clinton ran this shindig, I made MORE money, had a 401-K worth retiring with, my savings account was in the black,my home was valued within reason and not inflated like Ted kennedy's brain aneurysm, my hopes for peace were better than my mindset to create an underground bunker, and there were no planes diving into buildings or soldiers dying for an oil-rich nation. 

 My reasoning for Udumba is at least his eyes move when he lies, while McPalin is always reading cue cards and I find myself looking for Jim Henson to pop out from under his sagging skin like snufalufagus.  

While you also are CORRECT the entitlement mentality is far beyond ridiculous, neither side will enact the proper legislation to correct this fiasco:  A required national service program, where each human in this country, rich or poor, white/black/brown/yellowgreen or illegal, HAS to serve this nation with 2 years mandatory military or civil service work. Not one penny paid for wellyfair, SSI/SDI or any other program until you do. Grab a gun, shovel or textbook and serve the country thats served you. And if your @ss is in prison, chain-gang work crew every single day of your sentence, working in roads/ditches/fields picking migrant fruit or picking up scrap metal for recycling.  No free t.v., no gyms and basketball, work for your repayment to society or take the chair or needle.  THATS one of the biggest wastes of tax money in this country!!!!

 

__________________
Designated President of the Warm & Fuzzy Club. DBAA
fanatic - member
2351 posts

Hey whinenot,
you had more money when clinton was in office because when he took over he made it so every a hole no matter how broke could get loans. he built a falty economy that now it tipping over.
quit crying about how everyone but you has runed your life and run for an office. you seem to know it all.

__________________
The voice for the free blogers! Mr. Hankey is your martyr! Eventus stultorum magister. 30/30-150 Remembers!
fanatic - member
3878 posts

 

Seems you already have a stranglehold on Chief imbecile. So whats left,  cook at Perry Correctional?  Nah, Yo MAMA works there.

Wouldn't want to take away all the freebies from you.
__________________
Designated President of the Warm & Fuzzy Club. DBAA
fanatic - member
3878 posts


Hey whinenot,
you had more money when clinton was in office because when he took over he made it so every a hole no matter how broke could get loans. he built a falty economy that now it tipping over.
quit crying about how everyone but you has runed your life and run for an office. you seem to know it all.

-mr-hackey-the-d

And all this time I had it wrong!  Thank you Hackey, Thank you!  without your superior intellect, insight and exceptional capacity for speech and spelling I would have never figured out how much of a dork you really are!  Guess if I ran for office I could appoint you to a position( bent over in a gay bar wearing your rainbow coalition shirt comes to mind).

__________________
Designated President of the Warm & Fuzzy Club. DBAA
fanatic - member
2351 posts

Thats where you hang out? I don't think Mr. Hankey is about ready to be your girl friend but thanks for askin.

ask yourself something Mr. Superior. If a ignorant dorkey no spelling a hole like Mr. Hankey can get buy then why the hell can't someone like you? Your failure is your own, stop trying to pass it off. Might have somthing to do with you a hole attitude and your I can't do anything for myself nose stuck up his own ass attitude you have son.
Seems to me your just an angry little a hole your self who can't seem to figure out why no one will give you the hand up you need. good luck manageing a dollar story dirt bag!

But thats just what Mr. Hankey the Damn Yankee thinks.
now you have yourself a nice day.

__________________
The voice for the free blogers! Mr. Hankey is your martyr! Eventus stultorum magister. 30/30-150 Remembers!
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