Capital Projects Sales Tax - Redux
Please explain to me how these projects can be done in these hard economic times for 38% less.
Please explain to me how these projects can be done in these hard economic times for 38% less.
-petunia1
It's not 38% less, it's a 38% discount to the Anderson County taxpayers, because the Anderson County Sales Tax Study estimated that 38% of the sales tax revenue will come from people who don't live in the county. The only other ways to fund these projects that I know of involve raising the millage rate and/or issuing bonds, which will be 100% out of Anderson County taxpayers' pockets.
As I understand it, if any matching funds are obtained for a project, they can only be used to offset the cost of that particular project, and the money saved will be subtracted from the $148 million total.
On page 9 of that study there's a chart of net taxable sales in Anderson County from 1986 through 2007, and the projected sales through 2015. The taxable sales have increased consistently throughout all those years, and the projected line appears to follow the most conservative estimate, with sales in the 1999-2007 range mostly above the line.
I have supported the idea of the sales tax increase for projects that are needed, mainly repairs of roads and bridges. I had not made my mind up as to whether I would vote for it until recently, I will not vote for it in its present form.
I don't know if it is too late to redo the list but I think if they cut the list down to the repairs of roads & bridges only and shorten the number of years to collect the tax, it may pass. I don't see it passing in its present form, under these economic conditions.
As for as us getting 38% from outside the county, that figure is not certain. As a matter of fact with gas prices what they are and appear will be, people are going to stay closer to home. The people from Georgia may shop and eat in Georgia now. The people from Abbeville county may stay in Abbeville etc. Some of that could be negated by people in Anderson maybe not going to Greenville as much, but I think we will loose more than we gain.
In its present form I think the proposal is dead in the water.
It doesn't allow for bad economic times, does it? Also how many people hurting financially will drive to Anderson County to eat or shop? Trust me the people living in Anderson County will foot the bills and have to pay for the increased cost and interest on bonds for the projects.
I truly think this was a good plan and with a few disgruntled out laying areas worked well in York County. What a shame that we did not learn from their mistakes and place a desperately needed infrastructure project first on the list.
It doesn't allow for bad economic times, does it? Also how many people hurting financially will drive to Anderson County to eat or shop? Trust me the people living in Anderson County will foot the bills and have to pay for the increased cost and interest on bonds for the projects.
I truly think this was a good plan and with a few disgruntled out laying areas worked well in York County. What a shame that we did not learn from their mistakes and place a desperately needed infrastructure project first on the list.
-petunia1
I urge you to look at the graph on page 9 of the report I linked earlier. We had bad economic times in 2000-2001 and there was hardly a dip at all in the line. If we don't collect $148 million in 7 years then the projects at the end of the list don't get done. But the projects that do get done will be done partially with OPM (Other People's Money).
We hope the commission managing this project will be prudent enough not to issue more bonds than can be paid off by tax collections during the 7-year run....and if we only collect $120 million, well, we still get all the projects done at a discount to us (the Anderson County taxpayer).
It's never going to be any cheaper to do this work than it is today.
There are many people who think that the East-West connector is a desperately needed infrastructure project.
Is it more needed than widening the double bridges?..or Whitehall road..or rebuilding the screwed up intersections around INgles downtown?
What about the murderous winding, narrow roads in Powdersville that have killed so many teenagers up there?
I have no problems with legitimate projects getting funded..but do them first....we have so few chances to do it right..and here we go and sell out what is needed to buy a handful of votes...
Johnb2 has a good idea. Cut the list down to what is NEEDED...and cut the years back...then, once finsishing those projects....see if the people are willing to pass it again for the rest of the list...
Johnb2 has a good idea. Cut the list down to what is NEEDED...and cut the years back...then, once finsishing those projects....see if the people are willing to pass it again for the rest of the list...
-palmetto-native
Pick any project on the list, and you can find someone in the county who thinks it's not needed. Even you said earlier in this thread:
"but the roads and infrastructure needing to be fixed are the ones that are used by tens of thousands a cars a day...not the ones used by hundreds..."
I'm sure some of these projects are lesser-traveled roads.
At some point in our adult lives we have to assume that the people who do this for a living know more than we do, and we just need to give them the tools to do their jobs. As someone pointed out earlier, it will be the most watched, most transparent project ever done in the county. If this can't work then we are lost.
I think it's not a time for taxpayers to plant flowers, even though they are beautiful. Nothing against Starr/Iva, I have family that lives there. I just picked one thing from the list.
SO, we can get a 38% decrease in costs now or pay full price later. Hum? Thought choice.
Doesn't anybody get it? We might have gained savings if we had been able to vote the referendum in when it was first put forth. The savings that we could now obtain is much less. Also I am curious if the money spent to obtain right a way for this project is included in that "savings" This looks like throwing more money into a project that is not the most needed infrastructure.
The mistake was made when this project was put at the top of the list with the cost estimated at 20 million, I believe. This cost would certainly be almost doubled. Possibly being the only project on the list to be completed.
Obtaining a bond at a reasonable rate for the taxpayers investment is near to impossible now. I do believe that this project should be completed when the economic situation looks more favorable.
If the blame should be placed anywhere it should be with the committee that tried to sell us all a bill of goods to achieve a goal set by a few that would gain to profit from the completion of the East - West Connector. A good question to ask is when was the right away for this project purchased and by whom.
Doesn't anybody get it? We might have gained savings if we had been able to vote the referendum in when it was first put forth. The savings that we could now obtain is much less. Also I am curious if the money spent to obtain right a way for this project is included in that "savings" This looks like throwing more money into a project that is not the most needed infrastructure.
The mistake was made when this project was put at the top of the list with the cost estimated at 20 million, I believe. This cost would certainly be almost doubled. Possibly being the only project on the list to be completed.
Obtaining a bond at a reasonable rate for the taxpayers investment is near to impossible now. I do believe that this project should be completed when the economic situation looks more favorable.
If the blame should be placed anywhere it should be with the committee that tried to sell us all a bill of goods to achieve a goal set by a few that would gain to profit from the completion of the East - West Connector. A good question to ask is when was the right away for this project purchased and by whom.
-petunia1
Here is Art's response to this back in April:
The East-West Connector made the top of the list for the following reasons:
• Studies show that this road will reduce the ever-increasing congestion on Clemson Boulevard, Brown Road, Kings Road, Concord Road, and Reed Road.
• There is no direct east to west route that adequately serve traffic flow between Anderson’s two busiest Streets—Clemson Boulevard and SC 81. So, this road would provide a solid limited-access connection.
• $6 million has already been spent on engineering, environmental mitigation, and right-of-way acquisition. If this road is never built, we would lose this investment.
•If the County shows its willingness to finance this project, State and Federal matching funds could follow.
• Currently, one million residents, from 14 surrounding counties, travel through Clemson Boulevard, Concord Road, and Reed Road, to reach An/Med. If this trend continues to increase, these roads will reach the point of failure. In addition, widening these roads would be cost prohibitive.
With all respect to Art, I will never be convinced by the now or never threat. The road will be built. If not now as soon as the interested parties can regroup and present an acceptable plan to the taxpayers.
I'm outraged WE didn't get a new road, any sidewalks or a new park, or a new whatever for Homeland Park! It was said above that Powdersville NEEDS new expressways for the speeding teens to drag-race on. Guess drivers Ed never taught them to slow down on curvy roads ( another thread about education's failure)Sounds like a MCW supporter trying to pump up land values along the river like the sewer line on Beaverdam. Think they got enough concessions lately. Powdersville folks simply cross the river and shop/work/play in Greenville anyways. Know I did when I lived on River Road. I never bothered with Anderson's limited assets, entertainment or medical facilities. And my job was there too, so who needs roads for non-contributors to this urban area? Need good roads Powdersville, cross the river and you'll find them.
The cross town road for Clemson benefits whom???? Can you say wealthy who live in Rivendale/Cobbs Glen and Anmed area. Need to get to Anmed, use the existing 4-lane from the highway, thats why it was built isn't it? This plan doesn't do much for the long time residents of Whitehall, or those living in dozens of areas with single lane roads, no sidewalks or bike lanes. People, lets think beyond those pushing Council's buttons and start thinking overall PROGRESS for everyone.
[quote] • There is no direct east to west route that adequately serve traffic flow between Anderson’s two busiest Streets—Clemson Boulevard and SC 81. So, this road would provide a solid limited-access connection.
• $6 million has already been spent on engineering, environmental mitigation, and right-of-way acquisition. If this road is never built, we would lose this investment.[Quote] Art
If this is true then the answer would be no - the cost won't double. Reading how the committee came up with a plan that gave every area a benefit. The "short cuts" from 76 to 81 are not suited for the kind of traffic they currently experience and were not "planned" to do so. A safer, better planned route could accomplish more than traffic relief to those roads. This road might also stimulate new small businesses if zoning allows for that. Has anyone researched what the possible benefits could be from this project?
The debate at the Anderson County Library between Rep Bowen and Dr Dobbins, running for the District 8 seat in the SC House of Representatives, had an interesting question from a member of the audience.
There is a 1 cent sales tax referendum for Anderson County on the ballot in November. How would you vote and why?
Both candidates agreed there is a great need for repair of infrastructure and the list contained many worthy, needed projects. Ultimately they both said, in the present form, they would have to vote against it.
Petunia, while I am a Republican, I must say that I know Dr. Dobbins and feel he is one of the finest men in this county. If he should win, this country will be in excellent hands. He is reasonable, sensible, and totally in touch with reality. No insulting Mr. Bowen, you understand, just saying that Tom Dobbins is outstanding.
And i agree - I think the one cent tax in its presentation is flawed, and I plan to vote against it.
