Stan has a nice summary of the CPST in this week's Williamston Journal, and it's about 5 weeks until the election, so should we discuss it one more time?
Capital Projects Sales Tax issue to be on Nov. 4 election ballot
This will probably be the link after October 2 'cause they change their front page story links after a week and I won't be able to edit this post
Other Links:
CPST website
Final referendum question
Anna Mitchell's analysis
Nick Charalambous' analysis
Cocklebur thread: Two Sales Tax Referendums to be on ballot ???
Cocklebur thread: One Cent Sales Tax Referendum
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Capital Projects Sales Tax - Redux
String,
This is what makes politics so interesting and creepy at the same time.
99.9% of the time, I'm totally opposed to anything dearest Stanton writes or supports. This would be that very rare 0.1% where he and I agree. The CPST is needed and needed badly. We, as a county, can not compete with Greenville and Spartanburg for new jobs if we don't have the existing infrastructure. Remember - it's more than having a giant cowfield with road access. Water, electrical, and yes data are needed to bring these businesses to Anderson County.
Vote YES for CPST.
- SSHM
This is what makes politics so interesting and creepy at the same time.
99.9% of the time, I'm totally opposed to anything dearest Stanton writes or supports. This would be that very rare 0.1% where he and I agree. The CPST is needed and needed badly. We, as a county, can not compete with Greenville and Spartanburg for new jobs if we don't have the existing infrastructure. Remember - it's more than having a giant cowfield with road access. Water, electrical, and yes data are needed to bring these businesses to Anderson County.
Vote YES for CPST.
- SSHM
This is my favorite sentence from the article:
"Of the revenues generated, it has been estimated that 38% will be collected from sources other than Anderson County residents."
So, even if you think some of the projects are pork, here's how you can compute what the discount will be for the rest of the projects:
Discount = 38% x (($163,000,000 - $pork projects) / $163,000,000)
So, for example, if you think all the building, parks, and greenspace projects are pork, then:
Discount = 38% x (($163,000,000 - $6,947,000) / $163,000,000)
Discount = 38% x .957 = 36.4%
That's right, if you eliminate every project except road, bridge, water, and sewer projects, then the Anderson County taxpayers will be getting a 36.4% discount on all that work.
Putting it another way, by passing the CPST, the Anderson County taxpayers will pay $101,000,000 out of their own pockets to get every project on the list done,
or,
by not passing the CPST, the Anderson County taxpayers will pay $156,000,000 to get just the road, bridge, water, and sewer projects done.
Personally, I won't find this a very hard choice to make on November 4.
p.s. As I understand it, any state or federal matching funds will be applied to the projects to reduce what we have to pay overall.
"Of the revenues generated, it has been estimated that 38% will be collected from sources other than Anderson County residents."
So, even if you think some of the projects are pork, here's how you can compute what the discount will be for the rest of the projects:
Discount = 38% x (($163,000,000 - $pork projects) / $163,000,000)
So, for example, if you think all the building, parks, and greenspace projects are pork, then:
Discount = 38% x (($163,000,000 - $6,947,000) / $163,000,000)
Discount = 38% x .957 = 36.4%
That's right, if you eliminate every project except road, bridge, water, and sewer projects, then the Anderson County taxpayers will be getting a 36.4% discount on all that work.
Putting it another way, by passing the CPST, the Anderson County taxpayers will pay $101,000,000 out of their own pockets to get every project on the list done,
or,
by not passing the CPST, the Anderson County taxpayers will pay $156,000,000 to get just the road, bridge, water, and sewer projects done.
Personally, I won't find this a very hard choice to make on November 4.
p.s. As I understand it, any state or federal matching funds will be applied to the projects to reduce what we have to pay overall.
For those who believe the CPST is necessary I have to think that you believe all of the current County taxes are being spent effectively and efficiently and that there is other way to complete these projects without another tax. Yet in one other forum on this blog site it was brought out that some $80,000 spent on JEBCO is unaccounted for. There are other examples of lack of accountability, but I won't bore you with those now. Shouldn't we make sure first that our tax dollars are being properly spent and accounted for before adding another tax? That would seem prudent to me. By the way it has been stated that this CPST will go away after 7 years or as soon as its goal is met. Wow, I can't think of any taxes that have ever disappeared once instituted. If there are any they are very rare. Yes, I know the voters have a right to keep the CPST after 7 years if they vote to do so. I imagine at that time there will be another PR campaign to keep it for another 7 years.
kilkenny said " Shouldn't we make sure first that our tax dollars are being properly spent and accounted for before adding another tax?"
This is exactly what Cindy Wilson, Bob Waldrep and many others have been asking for but to no avail. King Joe will not permit certain facts to be known. I totally agree with kilkenny's statement above.
For those who believe the CPST is necessary I have to think that you believe all of the current County taxes are being spent effectively and efficiently and that there is other way to complete these projects without another tax. Yet in one other forum on this blog site it was brought out that some $80,000 spent on JEBCO is unaccounted for. There are other examples of lack of accountability, but I won't bore you with those now. Shouldn't we make sure first that our tax dollars are being properly spent and accounted for before adding another tax? That would seem prudent to me. By the way it has been stated that this CPST will go away after 7 years or as soon as its goal is met. Wow, I can't think of any taxes that have ever disappeared once instituted. If there are any they are very rare. Yes, I know the voters have a right to keep the CPST after 7 years if they vote to do so. I imagine at that time there will be another PR campaign to keep it for another 7 years.
-kilkenny
Why don't we do this instead. While you're looking for $163 million of waste in the county budget, go ahead and pass the CPST and get all this work done for a 38% discount. Then, when you do find the pot at the end of the rainbow, give it back to the taxpayers by reducing property tax, or free admission to the balloon fest.
I tried hard not to comment on this issue, as I said it all previously on this blog.
In these hard economic times, any sales tax is a burden on the less fortunate. I believe it is "across the board" which means even food will be taxed.
I do know that the revenue to be made will be far less and the projects will cost far more than the original estimate when the committee held those community meetings. (This was before the downturn of the economy, higher gasoline prices and the proposed buyouts of Wall Street and the Banks)
My problem with this referendum is that the East-West corridor is the first project on the list. The majority of the infrastructure needs are at the bottom of the list. If this referendum passes, the East - West corridor will be begun and a bond will be issued to pay for it at a high rate of interest possibly doubling the cost of the project.
This project and lack of zoning on Hwy 81 will certainly turn it into another Clemson Blvd. Before this project is completed a traffic plan needs to be in place. Traffic lights, turn lanes and barriers to prevent the dangerous crossovers need to be considered. This will entail the widening of Hwy 81.(also not one of the infrastructures presently listed or urgent)
In it's present form this referendum needs to be voted down. There are threats that sewers will be in danger, wells will dry up and bridges will collapse.
HELLO TAXPAYERS OF ANDERSON COUNTY! Those projects are so far down on the list it is possible that none the most needy projects will be completed. I believe that if those projects are included on the list paid for with the 1 cent tax referendum no other Grant, County rescue or bail out can be initiated for them.
Just for record, my vote is NO! I will not change anyone's opinion on here, nor will they change mine. I am voting NO for several reasons. But my biggest reason is this. Once again, many of the end uses are not necessary and/or too vague. Perhaps with the new council and a year or two of careful spending on things that really are the business of government I may think a tax increase necessary. But as of now I think there are too many things/projects that recieve our tax dollars that don't deserve them!,
I tried hard not to comment on this issue, as I said it all previously on this blog.
In these hard economic times, any sales tax is a burden on the less fortunate. I believe it is "across the board" which means even food will be taxed.
-petunia1
Title 4 Chapter 10 Article 3 of SC Law is the Capital Project Sales Tax Act, and section 4-10-350(B ) says "The tax authorized by this article is in addition to all other local sales and use taxes and applies to the gross proceeds of sales in the applicable area that is subject to the tax imposed by Chapter 36 of Title 12 and the enforcement provisions of Chapter 54 of Title 12."
Title 12 Chapter 36 of SC Law imposes our regular sales tax and lists all the exemptions. The CPST follows the same rules as our regular sales tax.
I do know that the revenue to be made will be far less and the projects will cost far more than the original estimate when the committee held those community meetings. (This was before the downturn of the economy, higher gasoline prices and the proposed buyouts of Wall Street and the Banks)
My problem with this referendum is that the East-West corridor is the first project on the list.
-petunia1
I assume the connector will take the longest to build so it has to start first. I also assume they will pay the bills as they go, so the first $18 million collected won't go to the connector, it will pay for the first $18 million of expenses. Obviously we can work on more than one project at a time. The commission will be authorized to issue bonds if the revenue is not coming in as fast as the projects are being done.
The majority of the infrastructure needs are at the bottom of the list. If this referendum passes, the East - West corridor will be begun and a bond will be issued to pay for it at a high rate of interest possibly doubling the cost of the project.
-petunia1
There is $15 million in interest included in the authorization, bring the total to $163 million. I think the only way we can pay that much interest is if the commission issues $148 million in bonds on the first day. It certainly won't "double" the cost of the project.
This project and lack of zoning on Hwy 81 will certainly turn it into another Clemson Blvd. Before this project is completed a traffic plan needs to be in place. Traffic lights, turn lanes and barriers to prevent the dangerous crossovers need to be considered. This will entail the widening of Hwy 81.(also not one of the infrastructures presently listed or urgent)
-petunia1
Without zoning Higway 81 is going to be the next Clemson Boulevard whether the connector is built or not. If the people out there care, vote in zoning. Each council district got about 1/7 of the $148 million allocated to projects in that district. I think they also chose the priorities. If Highway 81 improvements are not part of this, it's probably because they are already budgeted somewhere else.
In it's present form this referendum needs to be voted down. There are threats that sewers will be in danger, wells will dry up and bridges will collapse.
-petunia1
Aren't you concerned about these?
HELLO TAXPAYERS OF ANDERSON COUNTY! Those projects are so far down on the list it is possible that none the most needy projects will be completed. I believe that if those projects are included on the list paid for with the 1 cent tax referendum no other Grant, County rescue or bail out can be initiated for them.
-petunia1
There are 20 projects on page 1. 15 of them, including the first 5, are roads, bridges, water, or sewer. It's time we stand up and fend for ourselves, and stop expecting handouts to solve all our problems. I believe if there are matching funds available they will be applied to the project and the money saved will reduce the time we need to collect the sales tax. I don't think money saved can be used for any other project, or to start new projects.
NO NO NO NO. This is not the time for revitalization projects, bicycle paths, new buildings. We need to get back to basics. Tighten the belt. We are woefully behind on infrastructure. Roads and bridges need to be a priority. I will not support a new tax initiative that:
Widens roads instead of repaving
Provides for a sidewalk extension
Considers a bicycle lane
Spends 4.2 million dollars on a new public safety facility
Revitailzes the Pendleton downtown (no specifics)
Ball Park at a quarter of million dollars
Provides $500,000 for a sports and entertainment complex
$85,000 for planning and studying
1 million for a recreation building
Lastly, maybe someone can enlighten me, but why would a capital projects list encompass improvements for the Broadway Water District? Even if someone can sell me on why this 4.2 million dollars is placed in this tax initiative and not passed on to the end users of that system, I would continue to be unable to support the initiative with this type of wasteful spending proposals on the table.
Petunia, if you utilize the argument that some projects are so far down on the list they will never be completed, what's to keep a politician from attempting to gain some political traction by proposing to move one of their projects up on the list. Of course to do this he/she must agree to let another politician to do the same etc etc. There needs to be someone with some spine to stand up and say that the basics need to be covered and not allowing extraneous projects.
I do not intend to vote for this tax hike.
I will not be voting for this pork laden tax increase.
Has anyone asked Kevin Bryant, Marshall Meadors, Don Bowen, or Tom Dobbins if they support the tax increase?
NO NO NO NO. This is not the time for revitalization projects, bicycle paths, new buildings. We need to get back to basics. Tighten the belt. We are woefully behind on infrastructure. Roads and bridges need to be a priority. I will not support a new tax initiative that:
Widens roads instead of repaving
Provides for a sidewalk extension
Considers a bicycle lane
Spends 4.2 million dollars on a new public safety facility
Revitailzes the Pendleton downtown (no specifics)
Ball Park at a quarter of million dollars
Provides $500,000 for a sports and entertainment complex
$85,000 for planning and studying
1 million for a recreation building
Lastly, maybe someone can enlighten me, but why would a capital projects list encompass improvements for the Broadway Water District? Even if someone can sell me on why this 4.2 million dollars is placed in this tax initiative and not passed on to the end users of that system, I would continue to be unable to support the initiative with this type of wasteful spending proposals on the table.
Petunia, if you utilize the argument that some projects are so far down on the list they will never be completed, what's to keep a politician from attempting to gain some political traction by proposing to move one of their projects up on the list. Of course to do this he/she must agree to let another politician to do the same etc etc. There needs to be someone with some spine to stand up and say that the basics need to be covered and not allowing extraneous projects.
-pjrnemtp
Thank you for asking, pjrmemtp.
That was one point I failed to cover. The committee has been disbanded and this list will not be changed or altered in any way. Back to the drawing board after the election, I say. There may be projects that need to be covered by a sales tax referendum someday.
We are woefully behind on infrastructure. Roads and bridges need to be a priority.-pjrnemtp
I'll agree with this portion of your post. However, quantification is needed when such broad statements of "infrastructure is behind" (which it is) and "roads and bridges need to be a priority" (agreed, but ...).
Let's take a look at bridges first and foremost.
Does anyone know which bridge is the most heavily traveled in Anderson County? Anyone?
A: S. Murray Avenue Bridge in the city of Anderson
Anyone want to venture a guess as to how old this bridge is?
A: As I've been informed (unverified), this bridge has been in place since the 1950s.
So why don't we fix this bridge, as it is old, and is difficult to see from one side to the other (when traversing)?
A: Why don't you ask Jim DeMint or Lindsay Graham, or Gresham Barrett.
Yes folks ... that is a US Bridge (Federal Bridge) on a US Highway (US76). In FACT, if you look around Anderson County, you will see that a LOT of our roadways are indeed US Highways. Don't always look to your local or county governments to fix your roads. In a lot of instances, they (local and county governments) have little to no say about funding and repairing those roadways.
Why those three individuals can't provide a new, safe bridge, but this represenative CAN provide a pedestrian walkway that is seldom used is beyond me:
Another Bridge, Another Controversy: The Pedestrian Overpass on 277.
http://www.thestate.com/463/story/82674.html
Picture of said overpass here:
http://www.gwainc.net/images/projects/060620%20UPDATE/PedBridge277.jpg
In short, CPST is doing what it is supposed to do: Provide for the COUNTY in an in-scope manner. Attempting to fix FEDERAL roads with COUNTY money is both out-of-scope (for the project) and well, stupid to boot.
Hold you elected official accountable at ALL levels of government. Call Washington and find out why the feds have not provided for roadway improvements - roads that belong to them.
- SSHM
PS - Vote YES for CPST
PPS - Nice sig line pjrnemtp
SSHM,
So your take is we need to bleed the taxpayers for construction of a new road that benefits economic development only at a time when economic development will be scant at best.
After this road is built there will be developers that go in and clear cut and blade down the property (the need for zoning anyone?)and it will sit vacant and look like the properties now along HWY 81.
The plan is flawed! Accept that, vote no and rework the plan. If the committee refuses to take part it will prove my point that it was an elitist plan and not concerned with the true needs of the Anderson County taxpayers.
I was crucified before...but will say it again..
why do we pander to Starr..Iva..Honea Path..belton..etc with projects that will be used by virtually no one in the county? Yes, those citizens DO vote and pay taxes... the problem is they dont pay MUCH in taxes. So they pay what...5% in the taxes and take home what...33% in return? Why no outrage over that kind of math? How come cindi and larry didnt point out that as a reason not to support it? Because they dont have a problem with it either. They buy into this welfare mentality that says its OK for the people that pay the money to get shafted on infrastructure so that those who dont can get the benefit.
The money needs to spent where it does the MOST good. Failure to do that is the best reason not to vote for the tax.
I was crucified before...but will say it again..
why do we pander to Starr..Iva..Honea Path..belton..etc with projects that will be used by virtually no one in the county? Yes, those citizens DO vote and pay taxes... the problem is they dont pay MUCH in taxes. So they pay what...5% in the taxes and take home what...33% in return? Why no outrage over that kind of math? How come cindi and larry didnt point out that as a reason not to support it? Because they dont have a problem with it either. They buy into this welfare mentality that says its OK for the people that pay the money to get shafted on infrastructure so that those who dont can get the benefit.
The money needs to spent where it does the MOST good. Failure to do that is the best reason not to vote for the tax.
-palmetto-native
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't each county council district drawn to have the same number of people? Same number of people, same tax contribution per district. Same number of people, same amount spent per person, same sales tax paid per person.
Perhaps you're confusing where sales tax is collected with who paid it. Obviously more sales tax is collected in districts with large retail areas, but when people from Iva drive to the Anderson Mall to buy clothes, it was still Iva money that was spent there and Iva money that paid the sales tax.
but the roads are not in Iva that need fixing..so why fix the roads? Also, it is wrong to say that equal district equals same spending...
the per capita income is higher in the "urban" districts ..so there is more money to spend...
plus..all the "out of county" money is spent in those urban areas...and most importantly..those people use the roads in only a few areas...so their money should also be focused on where the problem is..
This is not intended as a dig at the southern part of the county...but the roads and infrastructure needing to be fixed are the ones that are used by tens of thousands a cars a day...not the ones used by hundreds...
but the roads are not in Iva that need fixing..so why fix the roads?
-palmetto-native
Really? I had not heard that before. Do you live in Iva?
Also, it is wrong to say that equal district equals same spending...
the per capita income is higher in the "urban" districts ..so there is more money to spend...
plus..all the "out of county" money is spent in those urban areas...and most importantly..those people use the roads in only a few areas...so their money should also be focused on where the problem is..
This is not intended as a dig at the southern part of the county...but the roads and infrastructure needing to be fixed are the ones that are used by tens of thousands a cars a day...not the ones used by hundreds...
-palmetto-native
It would be nice to think that everyone would vote for what's best for the entire county, regardless of how much their own district or town would benefit from the taxes collected....but we're talking about human beings here. For this referendum to have even a slim chance of passing, everyone will want to see some local benefit for the money spent.
If the town of Iva has managed their infrastructure so well that the most pressing need is greenspace, then I say good for them. I wish all the municipalities in Anderson County could say that.
As to urban vs. rural, should we also consider North Anderson and South Anderson separately? After all, there's a significant difference in per-capita income there, too.
I think we have to trust the district and municipal leaders to make the choices as to what is most important. According to the letter attached to the final referendum, the commission received over $800 million in requests, which they had to whittle down to the $148 million that is projected to be collected in 7 years.
Regardless of what you think of individual projects, this is the only way we can get these projects done for a 38% discount and this is the only way to collect the money and manage it without it getting mixed into the county general fund and potentially used for something "more pressing".
I'm certainly open to any other suggestions on how we can get these projects done, but waiting for federal or state funds, expecting to find a lot of fraud and waste in the county budget, or sticking our fingers in our ears and singing "lalala" are not credible alternatives.
-1
permalink
The tax will be the most open government spending we will see in Anderson County. Vote for the small tax and move on to more pressing matters. I'll take a 38% discount on projects over an unexplained rise in millage rates that can not actually be tracked through our financial reporting system in the county.
This county is floating a bond to that has nearly 1M going to a new Broadway lake project and we are talking about pork here? Where is the outrage?
