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AIG Bailout. Hey! Where's all the conservative condemnation?!

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member
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Wow - I know AIM is only "local, local, local" but, I thought the blogs would venture an opinion on the AIG bailout. Guess Palin and McSame are as far as you want to go?
Remember the hell Carter caught when he bailed out Chrysler? That was about $1B, and now AIG, which produces NOTHING, gets $80 Billion???
Where are all the conservative voices who would SCREAM if anyone suggested even $1 Billion to assist, oh, say, schools, or healthcare?

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0 posts

LMAO nybob.

They are not screaming because at least half of them would of lost their insurance policies had AIG not of been bailed out.

admin
5174 posts

I wasn't aware that McCain and Palin, or Obama and Biden, were the ones who bailed out AIG, NYBob, no matter how you want to paint the issue. The market forces that led to the current "economic crisis" were set up by ill-advised policies of BOTH parties over the past 30 years or so.

Personally, I'm not happy about it, but I'm even more upset that the Federal government - which is currently running an annual budget deficit of almost $500 BILLION - now owns 80% of a potentially bankrupt insurance company, AND THEY'RE CALLING THAT AN IMPROVEMENT?

You've got to be kidding me.

By the way, Citizen, AIG is more than just an insurance company, and this Republican doesn't have any policies or other ties to that company. Besides, I'm not sure it's the insurance portion of their business that's gotten them in such deep trouble. Have to look into that.

But y'all just go ahead and cheer a market meltdown that you think is going to help Democrats. I should point here that CONGRESS, currently with both houses controlled by Democrats who have an approval rating of about 20 percent, has regulartory oversight over the banking and insurance industries - NOT THE WHITE HOUSE - and both parties' presidential candidates for 2008 are U.S. Senators. Wink

member
1468 posts

I thought Ole Barney Frank and Charlie Rangel were the financial gurus with their fingers in the pockets, er excuse me, on the pulse for the last 20 months or so.  So how come the "melt down was allowed to happen?  Ditto for the banks.

And for Carter catching hell, I was under the impression that the Congress approved that laon, which Chrysler paid back, early, as Lee Iococca liked to remind us. 

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Wow - I know AIM is only "local, local, local" but, I thought the blogs would venture an opinion on the AIG bailout.

-nybob

Apparently you were wrong.

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 AIG is the world's 'largest' insurance company and have other lesser business interests.

This is not a bail-out. It's a loan payable with interest.

A much better expenditure than dubya's war in Iraq if you ask me!

Below is an excellent AIG reference ...

  AIG: Questions & Answers

http://blogs.wsj.com/wallstreetcrisis/2008/09/16/questions-and-answers-on-aig/

admin
5174 posts

Actually, Citizen, I'd rather see us spend money on American soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines any day than on insurance executives, banking executives and investors who are too greedy to accept the going bank rates on their savings but then scream foul when their risky gambles turn sour.

That's just my opinion, though.

?
305 posts


Actually, Citizen, I'd rather see us spend money on American soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines any day than on insurance executives, banking executives and investors who are too greedy to accept the going bank rates on their savings but then scream foul when their risky gambles turn sour.

That's just my opinion, though.

-jdtippett

And we all know that opinions,are like another body part,and "YOU",We might not care to hear either of them,but nobody has yet to figure a way to make a cork stay in either of them yet.No sense of humor Huh! That was funny, I don`t care who you are. (Borrowed from Larry the Cable Guy.)

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I think the USA had a moral obligation to assist AIG because their emminent failure was because of flaws in the USA markets and AIG is an international entity that has no control over our flaws.

The financial bottom is falling out in the USA and AIG is certainly not responsible for that are they?

And then .. Consider the domino effect that would of occured in the USA and world-wide had AIG of failed.

COST OF DUBYA'S WAR ..  www.costofwar.com/

member
46 posts

Well I AM GLAD to see such vibrant response to the subject!
I didn't couch this as a political issue Obama v McCain (although I did slip and say McSame) - But, I'm suprised that Obama doesn't distance himself as much as possible from this mess. (After all, he's only been in the senate for a couple of years!)
AIG is being bailed out because they also insured most of the sub prime loans that the other knuckleheads profited from and that has caused the initial meltdown.
Insurance companies are regulated at the state level, which is why AIG's first begging fit was to the New York State government - and what was odd there, was that they did an end run aroung the insurance commissioner, and went straight to the governor. He was willing to let them collateralize their unearned insurance premiums to keep themselves afloat short term - but that wasn't enough - so, within hours, they went, hat in hand to the FEDS.
Everybody is so worried about "socialized medicine" (which we already have, by the way, eg medicare, medicaid, congress' health insurance for its members), and yet we have socialized capitalism!!?? Any insurance company that can't make, and KEEP a profit, deserves to die on the vine. Isn't that what a free market is all about? Where's the stridency from the right?!

admin
5174 posts

NYBob, you and I agree totally on that last thought. HOWEVER, that initial problem with the banking industry - those "sub-prime mortgages" we hear so much about (remember Carolina Investors and HomeGold?) came about because the government told banks to make loans to people who had less than sterling credit on properties of questionable future appraisal value to avoid the practice of "redlining."

Has everybody forgotten that? Government intervention and interference with the free markets, dating back almost three decades, ultimately led to the collapse of the home finance market, which led in turn to the government having to step in to clean up the mess.

I'm all for free markets. But if a market catastrophe results from government meddling in free enterprise, then it is uncumbent upon that government to fix its own mess. And that means, whether we like it or not, we taxpayers are on the hook for cleaning up a mess left by CONGRESS over three decades, under both parties.

member
356 posts
JD, I don't think bad credit being pushed through is the only problem.  I think the other problem is loans being given based solely on income.  Jobs aren't like they used to be  and most people don't bother to save, they live day- to- day.  What happens when a couple has a $250k house, and 2 $40k cars and even one of them loses their job?  Or even worse both of them?  Plus they have 2 kids.  Unless they have family that can help them, they're in trouble.  I know of several loans that have these conditions.  The housing market is dead, so who picks up these loans?  In many of these cases the insurance companies also take a pounding.  So to me this current problem has many bad choices to be blamed.  Politicians are just a small chunk.
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46 posts

JD _ That's a clever linkage: redlining to current fiscal meltdown. I believe the redlining was dealt with without "forcing" the capitalists to lend money to the unwashed. The Redlining issue was a long time before this current mess.
Twenty years ago, a sub-prime was a mortgage where the borrower didn't put down at least 20% towards the purchase price. To be considered for such a loan, the lender wanted to see that the community that it was investing in was somewhat stable. That's where redlining comes in, the lines on the map, where geographically, the bank didn't want to place loans. But, then the banks, with the government's help, came up with "mortgage insurance" which was supposed to cover the bank's risk for both borrower default, and depression of equity due to the "neighborhood" the mortgaged property was in.
If a purchaser was able to put 20% down, of the actual appraised value, (not necessarily the selling price) then the banks didn't require mortgage insurance. The real estate bubble pops, and there goes the equity that the banks were originally hoping would cover their notes. AIG and others had a lot of mortgage paper (including a lot of policies to lenders for mortgage insurance) that suddenly is close to worthless.
Mind you, none of this happened as quickly as AIG was able to get the government to bail them out.
I also find it troublesome that the Treasury, through a call from the Federal reserve, is able to bankroll this $80 Billion without a vote in Congress. (or is that the next step?)

admin
3111 posts

NYBob, you and I agree totally on that last thought. HOWEVER, that initial problem with the banking industry - those "sub-prime mortgages" we hear so much about (remember Carolina Investors and HomeGold?) came about because the government told banks to make loans to people who had less than sterling credit on properties of questionable future appraisal value to avoid the practice of "redlining."

Has everybody forgotten that? Government intervention and interference with the free markets, dating back almost three decades, ultimately led to the collapse of the home finance market, which led in turn to the government having to step in to clean up the mess.

I'm all for free markets. But if a market catastrophe results from government meddling in free enterprise, then it is uncumbent upon that government to fix its own mess. And that means, whether we like it or not, we taxpayers are on the hook for cleaning up a mess left by CONGRESS over three decades, under both parties.


-jdtippett



This comment is intended to be an effort to get to the facts, not to score political points.
As I understand it, the vast majority of the questionable subprime lending was not done by banks, as you suggest, but by lending institutions that were outside of the stricter Federal regs that banks have to comply with. These were then purchased by investment companies, thrown together in bundles and then marketed without concern as to quality.
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member
46 posts

Pappy,
You're right about the majority of these "sub-primes" not being generated by the mainstream banks. The Countrywides and other mortgage "brokers" (Diteck?) pushed these loans by strong advertising campaigns and tended to pick up the people that the main banks might have turned down. But, in order to sell these mortgage packages to the investment "community," it was normally necessary for them to package the mortgages with the mortgage "insurance."
Because these subprimes generated higher interest rates against the borrowers(because of the known risk) they were perceived by the aftermarket buyers as attractive investments, --secured loans with high interest rates -- a great combo. But, the security became elusive when the properties were over appraised, or the neighborhoods went bad.
I think the redlining problem JD talks about was too long ago to be a causative factor in this recent meltdown.

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0 posts

Undecided  Well I'm still trying to understand all of this mess being that I'm not very stock-market savvy.

I came across this excellent article (link below) that has helped me, and may help others like me, to better understand what's going on Now, in the Past and in the Future.

Here is the beginning excerpt of this article from CNBC ...

Financial Crisis Is Showing No Signs of Ending Soon
By CNBC.com With Wires | 17 Sep 2008
Wall Street plunged to a three-year low Wednesday as the bailout of insurer AIG failed to calm fears that the financial crisis enveloping global markets would just keep escalating.

But late news of possible deals involving Morgan Stanley and Washington Mutual might help ease market jitters on Thursday.

As the Wall Street meltdown ended its third day, the Dow fell nearly 450 points, while Europe closed sharply lower and Asia ended mixed.

The US dollar fell, while oil prices rebounded sharply. Gold, meanwhile, staged its biggest rebound ever.

Rattled investors are now worried about which financial institution will be the next to fall after the AIG bailout, the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers [LEH  0.13    -0.17  (-56.67%)   ] and the purchase of Merrill Lynch [MER  19.36    -2.82  (-12.71%)   ] by Bank of America [BAC  27.20    -2.35  (-7.95%)   ] .

The two remaining Wall Street investment banks, Morgan Stanley [MS  21.75    -6.95  (-24.22%)   ] and Goldman Sachs Group [GS  114.50    -18.51  (-13.92%)   ] , saw their shares plunge on lingering worries about their ability to remain independent.

Late Wednesday, Morgan Stanley was said to be considering a merger with Wachovia [WB  9.12    -2.39  (-20.76%)   ] or another bank. Among those other banks was China's Citic.

Also, Washington Mutual [WM  2.01    -0.31  (-13.36%)   ] , the struggling savings and loan, has put itself up for auction, the Times said.

Strategists, meanwhile, said that the turmoil so far threatens to go beyond the financial services sector, hurting corporate profits and spreading panic among increasingly overstretched consumers. Already, banks are increasingly reluctant to lend to one another. [end excerpt]

Continued with links and Videos at .. http://www.cnbc.com/id/26755041

Hope this helps .. It helped me.

 

member
1065 posts

Citizen, welcome to the blog. I appreciate your sharing of this information. I hope you will continue to take part in the meaningful conversations that we sometimes manage to take part in.

guest
0 posts

Thanks Petunia1,

I like sharing information and learning as I do so.

I also like to offer rebuttals to Republican Half-Truths.

C'ya around 'this campus'.

member
1130 posts

A sad commentary i sthat even with all the bailouts approved to date..

we are still not even reaching the halfway point of what has been wasted in  Iraq. What kind of an economy would we have been enjoying if $350 billion had been invested in America..as opposed to in Iraq and Haliburton?

member
247 posts


 AIG is the world's 'largest' insurance company and have other lesser business interests.

This is not a bail-out. It's a loan payable with interest.

A much better expenditure than dubya's war in Iraq if you ask me!

Below is an excellent AIG reference ...

  AIG: Questions & Answers

[url]

-citizen

My guess is that's the only excellent reference AIG could get right now.

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