Getting kicked permanently or temporarily off an internet form is of no way an infringement of free speech. They are still fully capable of expressing themselves on public property or private property with the permission of the owner. Free speech does not give you the right to come into my house and say whatever you feel like you can stand out at the road (if its public) and say what you like but not in my house. Those same rules apply here. Now if Nick had gotten a few hooded guys together and stuck someone in a prison cell with no outside communication because he didn’t like what they said you can cry free speech and be right, but until then there is nothing to bitch about. I have never figured out how someone can take getting kicked form an internet forum so hard and get so upset about it. It cost you nothing to post here you do not pay any extra there is no membership fee.
"core members"..
anyone care to guess who is calling the shots???
The following was sent out today as a private message to all registered users: ============================================================================= Today I was forced to take an unprecedented step in my management of The Cocklebur............Let's take responsibility for making it a better place.
-nickcharalambous
Mr. Cenacalambous,
This step is long, long overdue. And, it is certainly not the first time that things have gotten so out of hand that you were compelled to act.
Topic: VULGARITY-LACED INDEPENDENT-MAIL WEBSITE
http://www.thecocklebur.net/2007/05/02/vulgarity-laced-independent-mail-website/page1/#post321410
It can only have been expected for things to have gotten so out of hand. You created this forum and then failed to responsibly manage it.
There used to be community leaders, such as Steve Kirvin, posting with some regularity. This forum provided a means for them to communicate with all of us. They are largely now gone, not wanting their names associated with what they read here.
The Cocklebur Forums simply have less value to our community than they used to.
Either make these forums wide open or make some well defined rules, post them, and abide by them. But either way, decide what you really want to accomplish here.
So......when are you and the Missus Cenacalambous going to make a baby?
TCC
Ernest: Posts voted down is not a mistake. That's the point. If folks disagree that a post is objectionable, they have the power to vote them back up. The point is that the "balance" of free speech will probably keep them up. Since even folks who might not like some points will vote up if they are made intelligently. Is there a chance of dormant accounts being misused? Probably. I'm thinking it will eventually get too tiresome for those trying to game the system, and they'll be outvoted by the responsible folks. Also, I'm manually approving accounts to try and prevent folks signing up a whole bunch of accounts in a short time span to skew a discussion. There may be a few days waiting period. I'll see how it would work. The bottom line: active members need to thumb ALL THE TIME!
Well here goes.
I have quietly watched for the past few days as things have unfolded.
I have made no post but tried to understand each posters viewpoint and it's time I stated mine.
To start I don't know who got booted/banned/scolded, but will say this. At times we all need to be put in our place. Since I have not posted in several days it could have been me that was banned. (said jokingly)
I would think to understand a viewpoint, one has to try to explain how he/she come to a conclusion. Here is mine.
Having 18 years in Law Enforcement I feel that not some things BUT everything has to have enforceable rules. Without rules there is chaos.
In that 18 years I have heard all the arguing and fighting I want to hear.
The same applies on this forum. Everyone has yelled Freedom of Speech where and when does it apply. It applies everywhere, but along with that freedom comes rules.
Think. One of the first places we think of freedom of speech is our courts, but there are rules set forth by Judges of what will be allowed in his 'room' and if you want to insist you have the freedom to do and say what you want you will be in contempt of his court. (RULES)
Think. When someone visits your house if there is no rules there is chaos. Some people have a rule, unwritten but still rules.
No shoes on their carpet.
No profanity
No smoking
This list could go on and on
The point is there are rules.
I may regret this but someone please start a thread (Things with no rules) lets see what makes the short list!
While I might disagree with nicks opinions I am man enough to abide by his rules, because this is nicks house with open doors for us to PROPERLY voice our opinions.
Again thank you nick and AIM for this forum for our discussions.
hob, you have a very stunted sense of freedom.-plumbbob
Actually you would be surprised to find my sense of freedom quite well developed. I am a grate believer in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. As the guy I hear on the radio seas from time to time it’s the bill of rights not the bill of needs. I support freedom of speech religion and the pursuit of happiness, as well as the right to bear arms. I also believe that we do not have a right not to be offended in that I support the rights of the KKK to Lewis Ferakon to be able to say what they want to say whether I agree with it or not. Years ago I took an oath to defend the constitution of the United States. ” I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.” This may or may not change your opinion of me or what you think my sense of freedom is, but be rest assured that I am more than willing to fight for your freedom of speech when it is being threatened. It is not being threatened on a privately sponsored forum that you do not pay for through either taxation or direct payment. If that were the case then it would be a whole different matter.
There is a big difference between a blog and a forum. 99.9% of blogs should have never seen the light of day, but instead should have stayed as family newsletters. The 0.01% of blogs worth reading are online versions of newspaper opinion columns, or have a specific focus, like this or this. The key characteristics are that information is flowing one way, and comments, if allowed at all, are usually heavily moderated.Mr. Henninger's comments on the blogosphere are accurate, but don't really apply to The Cocklebur.Although The Cocklebur started as Nick's blog with an associated forum (I think), it has transformed into a full-fledged forum with no restrictions on subject matter. The content is self-directing in that if someone starts a thread that no one is interested in, it quickly drops off the front page. The key difference is that there's no central personality directing the discussions like in a blog.Forums have been around since the beginning of the internet. Thumbs up/Thumbs down rating of individual posts might be trendy, but reading all the posts from an individual is the only way to discover whether he/she is credible, even if you don't agree with that person. In fact, I learn a lot more from the people that I don't agree with than from those with whom I agree.Flame wars and forum trolls are a revered tradition in internet forums, and nothing short of full moderation will stop them. The best way to deal with them is to ignore them....really. Don't participate, don't encourage them, and they will lose interest quickly.The Cockelbur is not a democracy; there is no "freedom of speech" here. It's a dictatorship with Nick as the benevolent dictator, wielding the ban stick as he feels appropriate. We all agreed to abide by the rules as part of the registration process, and those rules are our "bill of rights".-stringcheese
I already saw that email Nick. But Hankey does not know why he was banned. Who and why did he get thrown under the bus.
If you have had it some much..........then just pull the plug. But don't go crying and whining to us the you have had it.
Remember......YOU walked away first.
VOR: I didn't walk away ... what I did was respect the freedom and autonomy this forum said it wanted ... going back to a previous analogy: Daddy kept hearing his teenagers telling him that they were responsible adults and can be trusted with the house all to themselves. So, one day, he thought, "I'll take a vacation, a long one, somewhere sunny, and I'll check in with the older children and their responsible friends every once in a while to make sure everything is OK." So that's what he did and he'd hear about some issues "but it's all under control dad!" and then he'd go back to his vacation. When he finally returns, he discovers his house has been trashed and the thanks he's gotten for his generosity and trust is having his good name trashed also. Can anyone truly have control over an open forum? Probably not. But please at least respect the difficulty of the job and the fact that I'm obviously a believer in free speech, otherwise it would have been closed down a long, long, long time ago. Now please, can't we just go back to talking about issues? I may not have agreed wholly with Hank's sin bin stay, but I wanted to uphold the will of some core members who I think deserve to have their opinions heard given the frequency with which they post ....and given their true support for this forum.
WYATT finds himself torn on this one folks......
First, Mr Nick has done the best within his abilities to provide a b*tchroom for the , what was his word, malcontents, to verbalize and orate their feelings. I read here the attacks now switch from us "Cindy HAters and Joey lovers" to the fellas who GAVE them this site to have their spittoonfestival at. Butch and the AIM'rs who allow us a semi-free expression should not be castigated as they are for trying to reign in several sh*t disturbers. By doing so, you fall into the trap that you aren't any better than the thought police are. So for that ( and for the former life known as Straight Talk) I say thanks AIM!
But on the flipside, this site HAS become not much more than a host-city for bitterness, lackluster personal commitments and outright hostility towards those who: 1) LIKE Joey Preston, 2)are disgusted with political infighting that has made Anderson a back-assed farce, 3) like to put it in print we are tired of rhetorical face-slapping towards those who make efforts to change this city/county for the better ( I use our Homeland Park topic as a PRIME example of negativity and hatred towards common citizens speaking out) and finally 4) the narrow group which runs this forum like they bought & paid for it feel they can slander,insult and berate ANYONE they feel fit to do so to. I and several others who DID use this site more frequently than we do now are have opted to stay away from the sh*t slinging, personal attacks, slanderous and highly litigious statements and general down-beat tone of this site. If I want to be depressed, there's always the Nightly News or the next council meeting....Why come here for more???
To quote Artie Johnson...."Verrrry interesting....but STUPID!".
And to add to this string of commentary:
Rules. What are rules but a sense of guidance for those with a moral center. They have rules in the NBA, but you can still fight dogs and shoot teammates in strip-clubs, eh? They have rules in the IOC and yet you can still forge papers, dope horses or judge whatever you will for your own team. They have rules in Congress & Senate, but you can still accept bribes, steer a bill your way or earmark pork till it squeels! They have rules for driving a car, yet you STILL speed, tailgate, run reds, park in Handicapped spaces and fail to stop for pedestrians. They have rules for everything and yet more BREAK rules than follow them. So whats the purpose of MORE rules and social policing? Eventually only the elitists and special interests will reign superior and control the media, press and websites. Those who know or deal with those extremists who flame this site should already know that like roaches they will not disappear.
While I am appaulled at some of the things said here ( and some comments border on litigious...) I see no good from making Nick the hall monitor in the classroom FULL OF derelicts. @ssholes will continue to always be @ssholes. Making them write 500 times on the chalkboard "I will be a better @sshole" won't change what they are at their core. Ignoring them.....well by judging their personal characteristics I'd venture to say they are already ignored in life and vent on the web under their autonomity. Cheaper than a shrink I say. There's always gonna be a "malcontent" or two. Unfortunately we have allowed them to breed indiscriminately. Spay and neuter your trolls I say!
Nick: You just made the blog akin to WAIM and the Rick Driver Show, he too keeps off (bans) those he does not agree with. Who are these "core" people you consulted? I'll bet they are the same bloggers on here who call others dumb, stupid, bullies, and such? JD is chief among them. What makes them better than the rest of us? Let me guess? They go to the blog lunches and sit around and stroke each others egos and yours? Good luck with this ephemeral approach to building a blog audience. You'll soon be down to a miniscule audience of buffet gluttons,just like WAIM. Ban me, please ! Don't bother, I quit !
hob, I'm quite familiar with the oath you quote, since I also took it. But your last couple of lines that my freedom would be threatened if I were paying to be on this forum or paying taxes to support it is very confusing indeed. So freedom really isn't free, huh? you have topay for it. financially.Actually you would be surprised to find my sense of freedom quite well developed. I am a grate believer in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. As the guy I hear on the radio seas from time to time it’s the bill of rights not the bill of needs. I support freedom of speech religion and the pursuit of happiness, as well as the right to bear arms. I also believe that we do not have a right not to be offended in that I support the rights of the KKK to Lewis Ferakon to be able to say what they want to say whether I agree with it or not. Years ago I took an oath to defend the constitution of the United States. ” I (state your name) do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to the regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.” This may or may not change your opinion of me or what you think my sense of freedom is, but be rest assured that I am more than willing to fight for your freedom of speech when it is being threatened. It is not being threatened on a privately sponsored forum that you do not pay for through either taxation or direct payment. If that were the case then it would be a whole different matter.
-hob
Good luck with that, nomad. It would be a first, I expect.
Oh please live up to what you said republikin!-nomadron
Since so few seem to appreciate the wisdom and potential of community moderation (so much for the two years it took to get here.) And since so few seem to understand that freedom is protected by rules not license. And since so few seem to care about how bleak it is to live under anarchy, I have just have four words:
I... JUST... GIVE ... UP
I will do everything in my power from now on to have nothing to do with this enterprise. It is finished. "All ye who enter here abandon all hope."
Es nos iam morior ex dedecus?
Nick, you have too much personally invested in this just to walk away from it. Please reconsider. You know, if the American colonists had walked away from battle 220 years ago, we'd all be speaking ENGLISH by now. 
Etiam nos es.
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