I'm not bothered by it. I don't think it is an issue of their speech being so offensive as it was that the forum was completely overrun with a war over who was the "gayest" and all discussion was lost. Three of the four were temporarily banned and will be back shortly. The fourth was only banned permanently for not observing the temporary cooling off period.
I don't know who the four were, but I could venture a guess.
Cut it any way you want to. It's an abridgement of free speech. Nick and some nebulous group of long time bloggers has decided what canbe said and how, and by whom. It's hilarious that such a radical action goes under the name "moderation'.-dunebuggy
Dune Buggy on the surface you are correct however when free speech in an open forum becomes nothing more than threats of violence and personal attacks on people who are trying to participate in true discourse of a topic then my view is we're taking it too far. When one threatens in writing to beat someone with a baseball bat, take out their 357 magnum and asks to meet face to face to settle the issue, (and let me state not just once but practically every post not only on this particular line but on just about every other one) well I cannot help but believe that's borderline illegal. Since you were not part of the discussion chain and did not witness personally, as I and a number of other people, the violent innuendo, then possibly you may wish to reserve judgment on Nick's actions. When one is threatened under the guise of free speech, I believe it's an act of violence.
Doesn't matter what it boiled down to. If anyone was really watching they would have realized that the more moderate bloggers would have stopped blogging and only those involved with the name calling and worse would have been involved in the thread and it would have died. As it stands now this could go on for weeks. It was a matter of free speech and it was a matter of trying to dictate someone elses thought process and opinion. Therefore it was a mistake to ban whoever was banned.
Thanks, Nick. But, will moderation, regardless of who's doing it, be a futile enterprise? I have eschewed participating in discussion on the Cocklebur for roughly two years now because, quite frankly, I've often been very disappointed in the rantings that members have proffered as meaningful discussion. My optimism about this forum that I espoused over two years ago in response to Daniel Henninger's position on the blogosphere ([url]) has faded in the interim. Am I wrong?-homo-rhetoricus
Spring, there are already laws against threatening to assualt people with ball bats or to shoot them. If Nick believed that was a possibility, he should contact law enforcment ande reveal the offender's identity. But threats on the itnernet are not a real danger unless the person making them can identify and locate the one threatened. It's just like a school yard bully - the one threatening to beat you up is almost neverthe one who does.
Precisely, noeline.
If someone I do not know nor does that person know me and I take that person up a on a personal confrontation and actually show up it is MY CHOICE. It is also my choice of whether I want to read or respond to somebody's post and lets face we all have made posts that we later regret. It is MY CHOICE and it is free speech if I want to make an ass of myself by screaming on the blog like a banshee, free speech if that person were to come into my home uninvited and threaten me I have a gun and the argument will be ended right then and there. If on the other hand the threat is on this blog well then that old adage of sticks and stones applies.-noeline
Just because I chose to stay out of thee infantile pissing contest doesn't mean I didn't "witness" it, spring. But as I said, and as noeline so clearly put it, if someone is challenged in a violent way and chooses to accept that challenge, they have placed themsleves at risk unnecessarily. As to the threats, if they were deemed credible enough by Nick and his band of long time, responsible bloggers to warrant banning the people, then they should have contacted law enforcement. But Nick knows whatI know, and that is that without the target's identity, all threats are just a big mouth flapping. so spare me the public safety argument.Dune Buggy on the surface you are correct however when free speech in an open forum becomes nothing more than threats of violence and personal attacks on people who are trying to participate in true discourse of a topic then my view is we're taking it too far. When one threatens in writing to beat someone with a baseball bat, take out their 357 magnum and asks to meet face to face to settle the issue, (and let me state not just once but practically every post not only on this particular line but on just about every other one) well I cannot help but believe that's borderline illegal. Since you were not part of the discussion chain and did not witness personally, as I and a number of other people, the violent innuendo, then possibly you may wish to reserve judgment on Nick's actions. When one is threatened under the guise of free speech, I believe it's an act of violence.
-springs-sprung
...BTW, I'm still waitng to hear exactly who was banned and who was consulted as to why they should be. Is this classified information?
-dunebuggy
Seeing as we've heard nothing from ZN, Hankey and rino all day, I would guess them at least
I wasn't banned. :D
I think it is unfair to toss Mr. Hankey into the catagory of making threats of violence or trying to see who is the Gayest.
I still want to know from the Judge, Jury, and Executioner(NICK) who and why people are being banned without a public trial. I thought we lived in a democracy.
Go review he last posts and see for yourself.
What specifically did they do. I have heard from MR. Hankey and he really does not know what he did that was over the line.
I think it is unfair to toss Mr. Hankey into the catagory of making threats of violence or trying to see who is the Gayest. I still want to know from the Judge, Jury, and Executioner(NICK) who and why people are being banned without a public trial. I thought we lived in a democracy. Go review he last posts and see for yourself. What specifically did they do. I have heard from MR. Hankey and he really does not know what he did that was over the line.-voice-of-reason
Seeing as there appears to be no such thing as privacy (I'll remember that next time one of you all contacts me by email or pm by the way. How so very freakin gracious of you Mr. Voice-of-Reason), I'll copy what I wrote back to Mr. Hankey:
Hank: personally. I don't think you are a flamer in the true sense of that word at all. I am "sending a message" as it were - basing my decision on what some core members feel. )Your posting frequency and sense of humor I thought would mean you'd not be too concerned ;). Heck you are now officially in the sin bin! Who else can claim that? Seriously, just reapply for membership and we'll be cool. N.-nickcharalambous
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. I've had it with all you, seriously. I could not care less any more. If there's any freakin way to manage a bunch of malcontents who can't ever be pleased no matter what the heck I do, I'd love to hear it.
I've tried to be patient. I've tried to abide by the SPIRIT of free speech. For those of you who think that I'm somehow engaging in some kind of effort to "protect" whichever person's Ox you are goring that day, go right ahead and be paranoid and delusional. I have made a choice in my life not to listen to people who don't love me or respect me. Those who do know that's not what I'm about. And I don't have anything to prove to anyone else.
Anyway, for all my hard work to keep this public space alive, all I get in return is bitching and moaning.
Well guess what: Come and post or don't come and post. This is my house. These are my freakin rules ok? If you don't like it go somewhere else. If the Cocklebur dies so be it. I don't want it to live if its a bunch of crude, juvenile behavior that makes me sick to my stomach. I support this forum as a marketplace of ideas not a trash bin of I'll-say-whatever-I-want-otherwise-I'm-gonna-cry-about-censorship.
Boo hoo
Seeing as there appears to be no such thing as privacy (I'll remember that next time one of you all contacts me by email or pm by the way. How so very freakin gracious of you Mr. Voice-of-Reason), I'll copy what I wrote back to Mr. Hankey: Put that in your pipe and smoke it. I've had it with all you, seriously. I could not care less any more. If there's any freakin way to manage a bunch of malcontents who can't ever be pleased no matter what the heck I do, I'd love to hear it. I've tried to be patient. I've tried to abide by the SPIRIT of free speech. For those of you who think that I'm somehow engaging in some kind of effort to "protect" whichever person's Ox you are goring that day, go right ahead and be paranoid and delusional. I have made a choice in my life not to listen to people who don't love me or respect me. Those who do know that's not what I'm about. And I don't have anything to prove to anyone else. Anyway, for all my hard work to keep this public space alive, all I get in return is bitching and moaning. Well guess what: Come and post or don't come and post. This is my house. These are my freakin rules ok? If you don't like it go somewhere else. If the Cocklebur dies so be it. I don't want it to live if its a bunch of crude, juvenile behavior that makes me sick to my stomach. I support this forum as a marketplace of ideas not a trash bin of I'll-say-whatever-I-want-otherwise-I'm-gonna-cry-about-censorship. Boo hoo-nickcharalambous
Nicely put. Your house, your rules. It's tantamount to you inviting people over to your house, saying "make yourself at home" and them getting upset when you throw them out after they break your TV and try to sleep with your wife.
Well guess what: Come and post or don't come and post. This is my house. These are my freakin rules ok? If you don't like it go somewhere else. If the Cocklebur dies so be it. I don't want it to live if its a bunch of crude, juvenile behavior that makes me sick to my stomach. I support this forum as a marketplace of ideas not a trash bin of I'll-say-whatever-I-want-otherwise-I'm-gonna-cry-about-censorship.Boo hoo
-nickcharalambous
This used to be a forum where people exchanged opinions and ideas and were respectful of difference. Sure politics can bring up strong feelings, but if you incapable of disagreeing with someone without believing it's a personal attack, you should probably avoid politics completely. In fact, you should probably avoid people completely.
Freedom of speech is great, but you're not allowed to scream fire in a crowded theater. There are limits to what you can and cannot say. Making threats of violence is across that line. And if you don't like how Nick runs things, the joy of this great country is you are allowed to front the cash and make your own forum and run it however you like. If you run it better, you can eliminate the need for The Cocklebur and give Nick the vacation from the stress that he obviously deserves. If you're too much of a #@%#$^ to do that, sit down, shut up, and enjoy the community he is trying to create!
Here comes the next step. First Nick and some of his cohorts decide who should be allowed to play and now Ernest thinks if you aren't posting often enough that should disqualify you. It's like the cops on I-95. If you aren't speeding they pull you over to see if you're being careful because you're hauling drugs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Oh,and if the word damned offends anyone I'm very sorry. Please don't put me in timeout. And ya'll wonder why there isso little adult discussion on this thing?
And really, this isn't Nick's house. It's sponsored by and exists because of a newspaper, which coincidentally exists because of the First Amendment, and should insist on free speech no matter how profane or offensive. So let's get real folks. This stuff offends Nick and some ofhis cronies and some of the power structure.
Frankly, I wouldn't piss on Hankey if he caught fire in front of me.I think he's a moron and a pompous ass, and I'm sure he feels the same about me.But he is an American moron and pompous ass and his right to free speech is just as absolute as yours or mine. when he pisses me off, I don't read his screed of hatred and self righteousness.That's what grown ups do folks. They make decisions.I don't need Nick to make them for me. Free the Cocklebur Four!!!
It's been a while since this topic was active, if you'd like to get it going again, please post as a registered member
ultrafitrobin
