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Military veterans favor McCain, 56% to 37%

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fanatic - admin
6531 posts
It's fight-back time against Andrew's bogus military contributions post. In fact, it's time for us conservatives and Republicans to fight back against all the lies, spin and bull**** (like, Republicans don't care about our veterans) that keep showing up on The Cocklebur lately.
I think John McCain was right about Barack Obama and Democrats - they WOULD be willing to lose a war to win an election. They've certainly done everything they know how to do over the past six years to undermine our ability to defend ourselves against an international terrorist threat:
Military Veterans Favor McCain 56% to 37%
July 25, 2008
Voters who have served in the U.S. military favor John McCain over Barack Obama by a 56% to 37% margin.

This data, from a Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey, is based upon interviews with 3,000 Likely Voters, including 588 voters who have served in the military. Voters with no military service favor Obama 50% to 43%.

The survey was conducted July 21-23 while Obama was on an overseas tour that included Afghanistan and Iraq. Overall, the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll showed Obama leading 48% to 45% (with leaners) over those three days.

But a separate survey also found that 63% of Americans do not believe the stopovers in the two war-torn countries made the Democratic candidate any more qualified to be president.

The same survey also found that less than a third (32%) thought Obama learned from his trip to Iraq, while 40% said his mind was already made up about how to deal with the war there.

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fanatic - member
1141 posts
JD,

What exactly does this refute?

Younger people currently serving in the military support Obama, and the old farts who served in Vietnam are supporting McCain... Those are just the natural demographics of each candidate.
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andrew.hammett@gmail.com
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386 posts


JD,

What exactly does this refute?

Younger people currently serving in the military support Obama, and the old farts who served in Vietnam are supporting McCain... Those are just the natural demographics of each candidate.

-ahammett

Your stats are wrong - Obama is not seen as a good Commander & Chief by the young military personnel. He is seen as charismatic and personable but they don't think overwhelmingly he knows his butt from his elbow when it comes to what they do or how the military works.

fanatic - admin
6531 posts

Disraeli said, "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies and statistics."

He couldn't have been more right than in this case.

First, those numbers you cited say absolutely nothing about the age of the contributors, or their role as overseas, active-duty members of the U.S. Military, so your younger/older Vietnam/Iraq analogy doesn't hold water at all. Second, it has been my experience in dealing with these soldiers who are in combat overseas, or who have been, that not too many privates, PFCs, Lance Corporals and Corporals throw a thousand buck contribution at ANY candidate, so my guess (and, yes, it's just a guess) is that most of these contributions came from the officer ranks.

In any event, here is the report from the Center for Responsive Politics (which hysterically enough is still called a "non-partisan group, but we'll leave that for another discussion) from which your statistic came:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, criticized by his Republican rival because of his support for a timetable to withdraw combat forces from Iraq, leads among all candidates in donations from U.S. servicemembers overseas, according to a new report based on government data.

 

The non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics, drawing on Federal Election Commission filings, said Democrat Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than has McCain.

 

Republican Ron Paul, who has suspended his campaign, received more than four times McCain's donations, CRP said.

The data stand in contrast to the 2000 and 2004 election cycles, when Republican George W. Bush raised more money from the military than his Democratic rivals, Vice President Al Gore and Sen. John Kerry, CRP said.

Here are the amounts and numbers of contributions ranked from troops deployed abroad, based on contributions made during the 2008 election cycle through June 31, 2008.

1 Obama $60,642 (134)
2 Paul $45,512 (99)
3 McCain $10,665 (26)
4 Huckabee $7,950 (10)
5 Thompson $6,350 (7)
6 Romney $5,550 (10)
7 Clinton $3,240 (6)

Here are the amounts and numbers of contributions ranked from all military personnel.

Obama $335,536 (859)
McCain $280,513 (558)
Paul $232,411 (537)
Clinton $167,050 (376)
Republican National Committee $135,902 (219)
Huckabee $66,751 (127)
Thompson $46,400 (93)
Romney $43,307 (96)
Giuliani $22,050 (47)
National Republican Senatorial Committee $21,885 (26)
DNC Services Corp $16,873 (53)

 

     Now, Andrew, the United States has a standing military of about 1.2 million men and women, including gays and lesbians who could go either way, but thanks to the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy we can just use the genetic designation, and about a third, or 400,000 of those forces are deployed overseas at any given time at present.

    You statistic is based on 292 of those members and, unlike the Rasmussen poll I cited, those 292 people actually chose to be involved and aren't random selections. In case you aren't close to a calculator, 292 is .00073 percent of the approximately 400,000 soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen who are deployed at any given time.

    And those 292 soldiers, Marines, sailors and airmen contributed a total of $139,909 out of well over a billion dollars the candidates have raked in since the 2008 Presidential campaign began (seems like a decade ago, but it wasn't.)

    Note also that Ron Paul, who claims to be a Republican but isn't really, raked in $45,512, versus $60,642 for Obama, and PAUL doesn't have a snowball's chance in Hades of becoming President.

    Let's go to the next set of numbers in that same poll: 2,991 members of our active-duty military have contributed $1,368,678 to Presidential candidates in this cycle (as of June 30, I think.)

    Obama leads with $335,536, while McCain has $280,513. That's hardly a 6-to-1 margin. Furthermore, if you really want to consider Ron Paul to be a Republican (and since he ran as a Republican, why not), Democrats and Democrat-leaning causes got $519,459 of that total (37.953 percent), while Republicans and Republican-leaning causes drew 62.047 percent. Even if you pull Ron Paul's total over to the Democrat side because of his anti-war stance, Democrats can only claim 54.93 percent of total contributions.

    Forgetting for a moment that there restrictions in place against active-duty mililtary personnel getting directly involved SPECIFICALLY AS SERVICE MEMBERS (that darned Commander in Chief in the chain of command thing, you know, regardless of which party controls the White House), the Rasmussen poll numbers I cited from from a supposedly from a respected organization that carries out its studies scientifically.  There is some meaning to a Rasmussen poll that shows McCain with a solid lead over Obama among active-duty military personnel.

    There is ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNIFICANCE to your "Obama leads McCain 6-to-1" in contributions from military personnel deployed overseas. And if there is any significance, it's simply because 292 IDIOTS are wearing the uniform of the United States Armed Forces and deployed overseas who did not realize they weren't supposed giving to either a Republican, a Democrat or a Libertarian AS ACTIVE-DUTY, DEPLOYED military, really isn't the smartest thing they'll do.

    (They can give whatever they want to as citizens, however, even if they're active-duty military deployed overseas, so don't go screaming about their rights or lack thereof.)

    And, if there really were any significance to your precious little list, Ron Paul would be the Republican nominee for President right now and Hillary Clinton quite possibly wouldn't even be SPEAKING at the DNC convention in a couple of weeks, let along having her name put in nomination for President.

    Bottom line, Andrew: You thread means absolutely nothing other than as a tool for bogus political spin that somehow, in your minds, indicates that any member of our active-duty armed forces would bother to pee on Obama's let if his pants were on five.

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superstar - member
386 posts

JD, you argue with the boy with real numbers? He's not going to like that.

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6531 posts
Best way to confuse a liberal: Hit him with a real fact. Wink
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JD,

Let me try to be objective ( I know, tough sell ) about the two posts from you and Andrew.

Andrew's topic heading is technical true--Obama did beat McCain 6 to 1, even according to your stats.
And it is also true that, as with too many stats, it doesn't mean anything more than finding a peanut on a tree, as you have shown.
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If a tree don't fall on me, I'm gonna live till I die. . .Tex Ritter

fanatic - admin
6531 posts

Yes, PAPPY. That was my point exactly.

I should take this opportunity to point out, since we're talking about "technical" truths and statistics,  that I TECHNICALLY (actually, even) made $15,000,015,500 (that's fifteen billion, fifteen thousand and five hundred dollars) MORE than General Motors made in April, May and June combined this year. And this should make Butch happy down at the AIM: THEY DID EVEN BETTER.

What's that? No, you can't have a loan. Make up your own statistics. Wink

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fanatic - admin
1163 posts
So, let me get this straight, JD.
You say that Andrew is wrong about the statement that "active duty military personnel" gave 6x more to Obama than McCain is "bogus".
Yet the only statistics you actually present in your (characteristically) verbose post is that....
ACTVIE DUTY MILITARY GAVE 6X MORE TO OBAMA THAN MCCAIN.

Umm, this is reality... paging JD Tippett. Reality to Mr. Tippett. Come in please.

Reality to Tippett. Come in Mr. Tippett.


DEAR GOD, JD, THIS IS REALITY.... COME IN!!

Next time you want to dispute a fact, how about you actually DISPUTE IT. Rather than agreeing with it in every way, then coming to a completely different conclusion despite your overwhelming lack of evidence to the contrary.



fanatic - admin
6531 posts
Jack! It's about time something I wrote rattled your cage and got you to post something! How are things goin' down at Moo U.? Laughing
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fanatic - admin
1163 posts
Jack! It's about time something I wrote rattled your cage and got you to post something! How are things goin' down at Moo U.? [image]

-jdtippett



Doin fine. I are graduated now, though.
Just bored today, trying to avoid going back to work after visiting the wilds of kentucky.
fanatic - admin
6531 posts
Well, stay bored and stay here. The Cocklebur needs your insightful (albeit vicious and highly partisan) posts to keep things interesting. Wink
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1262 posts

Which of you is pot and which is kettle.  Now don't start fighting over the pot. Wink
fanatic - admin
6531 posts
Petunia, at my age the closest I come to fighting over the pot is when Mrs. Tippett and I discuss whose turn it is to do dishes. And even then, I'm not so much fighting "over" it as fighting to keep from getting conked over the head with it. Frown
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fanatic - member
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Petunia, at my age the closest I come to fighting over the pot is when Mrs. Tippett and I discuss whose turn it is to do dishes. And even then, I'm not so much fighting "over" it as fighting to keep from getting conked over the head with it. [image]

-jdtippett



JD,
I would bet that there were many times in your youth that you fought over who would do the pot first. . .Wink
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If a tree don't fall on me, I'm gonna live till I die. . .Tex Ritter

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Well, of course, PAPPY. Thank goodness Mrs. Tippett and I can afford to have more than one bathroom and don't have to fight over such things. Wink
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I don't get it.
Why would you fight over who gets to be pot Wink
fanatic - member
3348 posts
I don't get it. Why would you fight over who gets to be pot [image]

-jack-ruby



I'd rather be the pot than the kettle !
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1215 posts
Well, I cannot say with authority anything about what veterans or those deployed think, but my son-in-law is in the US Navy and one who could go to serve in war zones, so I take his viewpoints very seriously.  He feels that Obama is not a good choice at this time in our history and that his friends serving in the military share his viewpoint. 
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superstar - member
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Well, since the u.S. Military currently numbers well under 2 million members for all branches,and since they are required to vote on a state by state basis, it's unlikely that the military's vote will have much influence. But it is a rare thing when the military votes against a candidate who was a veteran and for one who wasn't. So the question is probably insignificant, but iof it keeps Andrew out of traffic, what the heck.
As for the repeated and already dull pot/kettle exchanges, for god's sake, stop it!! Please!
Quenn, i hold you responsible. you're the one who quoted Ludlow Porch about how much fun beating a dead horse is.

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