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Anderson's Animals

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fanatic - member
1337 posts

Actually, you should have two acres per horse for general grazing.  SO....  it really would need to be a location with larger acreage.  Unless you expect to have extra funds for hay, etc.  In the long run, large land parcel with grass for grazing would be cost-effective, in my opinion.

-the-queen

This is true for a well-cared-for horse, but when you first start to rehabilitate a starved horse you want to control what it eats, so a dry lot or a small paddock is better for that purpose. Starved horses are usually given small amounts of wetted senior feed several times a day along with handfuls of hay. In this case no grass is not a bad thing.

I believe the plan would be that once a horse is certified free of diseases it would be moved to a foster home for rehabilitation. It takes 3-4 months for an emaciated horse to reach normal weight again. it also takes some time for the horse's true personality to emerge as it starts "feeling its oats".

__________________
Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses. Jake: Hit it.
?
305 posts

This is true for a well-cared-for horse, but when you first start to rehabilitate a starved horse you want to control what it eats, so a dry lot or a small paddock is better for that purpose. Starved horses are usually given small amounts of wetted senior feed several times a day along with handfuls of hay. In this case no grass is not a bad thing.

I believe the plan would be that once a horse is certified free of diseases it would be moved to a foster home for rehabilitation. It takes 3-4 months for an emaciated horse to reach normal weight again. it also takes some time for the horse's true personality to emerge as it starts "feeling its oats".

-stringcheese

This is all very interesting to me, I`ve never been around many horses,seems to me taking care of a horse,especially one who has been abused,or neglected is a big and expensive job.

superstar - member
225 posts


This is all very interesting to me, I`ve never been around many horses,seems to me taking care of a horse,especially one who has been abused,or neglected is a big and expensive job.

-rino


Ah... but horses are truly magical creatures and well worth the effort. Once you around them you want to go back again and again and again...

__________________
Serving the upstate since last Thursday.
fanatic - member
1337 posts

This is all very interesting to me, I`ve never been around many horses,seems to me taking care of a horse,especially one who has been abused,or neglected is a big and expensive job.

-rino



Depending on how much pasture you have, the annual cost just to own a horse is $1800-2400. This includes veterinarian fees, farrier fees, feed, hay, fertilizer, lime, dewormers, feed supplements....the list goes on and on.

If you actually want to ride the horse, you can just kiss your wallet good-bye. Money mouth
__________________
Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses. Jake: Hit it.
?
305 posts


Depending on how much pasture you have, the annual cost just to own a horse is $1800-2400. This includes veterinarian fees, farrier fees, feed, hay, fertilizer, lime, dewormers, feed supplements....the list goes on and on.If you actually want to ride the horse, you can just kiss your wallet good-bye. [image]

-stringcheese

Sounds a lot like keeping up a couple of classic cars,just when you think you are starting to see a little daylight, something new pops up.But when all is said and done you still know it`s worth it if thats where your heart is.

superstar - member
423 posts

There is a great quote that, "the outside of a horse is good for the inside of a man". (Author not remembered)
Stringcheese forgets a lot of costs but seems to have the basics down. To take a sized horse also requires 72 hour monitoring then 4 feedings up to the recommended pounds of feeding for each horse, then reduce the number of feedings so they are manageable. You must begin ground training so when the horse begins to feel better they remember they are required not to hurt a human and peacefully comply with basic manners.
I just spoke with Brain Dees, (President of Georgia Equine Rescue League GERL) this evening about an in-coming case we have and some possible help. He told me about a call he received asking him to come pick up 20 plus horses from a man, "fallen on hard times". The man has a couple 30 plus year old horses, one stud that was wild and the rest that were not halter broken at two to five years old. People have been allowed to indiscriminately breed and now that times are tough, the slaughter sales have been closed down, hay and feed costs are up, and there is no market for horses people are all panicking. All the rescues are finding themselves stretched.
I could barely stand to allow our huge gelding go to the Charleston City Mounted Police never mind accepting that in trying to serve out county I brought disease or illness to one of my octogenarian horses. The burden can be shared fairly and at far less than 3.2 million for a place to take them to for evaluation, tests and thirty to sixty days of quarantine.
Both federal and state laws state you cannot starve any animal, there are specific livestock laws and whether you think we should or should not spend the money to help livestock, the fact of the matter is, there is no choice. Having euthanized my own cats and dogs as they became sick and unable to live with any quality of life I can say that euthanizing a large animal is far more traumatic and difficult. For neglect cases it is as unacceptable for a horse as it is for any cat or dog just far more problematic just for logistics of burial. Take your cat or dog to the vet to be euthanized and it gets a sedative and then when the human is ready the lethal dose. A horse in the field does not have all that luxury.
PEARL does this because as g-papadopolis says, “once you know them you can’t help but keep going back for more”.
Regards,
Nicole Walukewicz (Chair- PEARL)

__________________
They who fight in the dark do not shine in the light. Herbert Kaufman
fanatic - member
1793 posts

Nicole..I so commend you for what you do. You are representative of how things ought to be done. However, that model stops working when you move into expecting the county to pick up the tab incurred by a very small group of people engaging in a luxury.

Someone mentioned the costs associated with horses.... and that proves my point. The costs are huge..and though the return to those who chose to participate are enormous....I dont see why I have to get involved. The laws are clear. Enforce the law and pass the costs associated on breaking it back to the offenders.

Like dogs and cats should be licensed so that those who own them pay the cost of the shelter...so should large animal owners be charged all the fees necessary to run such an operation.

Then, take the monies raised and give them to responsible entities (Like PEARL, or the Humane Society) to run the associated shelters and rescue organizations.

But get the county out of the business..

anyway...again, I thank you for what you do...

fanatic - member
1337 posts

Nicole..I so commend you for what you do. You are representative of how things ought to be done. However, that model stops working when you move into expecting the county to pick up the tab incurred by a very small group of people engaging in a luxury.

Someone mentioned the costs associated with horses.... and that proves my point. The costs are huge..and though the return to those who chose to participate are enormous....I dont see why I have to get involved. The laws are clear. Enforce the law and pass the costs associated on breaking it back to the offenders.

Like dogs and cats should be licensed so that those who own them pay the cost of the shelter...so should large animal owners be charged all the fees necessary to run such an operation.

Then, take the monies raised and give them to responsible entities (Like PEARL, or the Humane Society) to run the associated shelters and rescue organizations.

But get the county out of the business..

anyway...again, I thank you for what you do...


-palmetto-native



As with the animal shelter, a large animal quarantine facility would not exist to serve the needs of responsible animal owners, so why should they alone bear the expense? These facilities are there to serve the needs of the animals who are abandoned, abused, and neglected. Fines from the prosecution of animal abuse go back into the county coffers, but it's only a drop in the bucket. Typically it takes several man-hours of an officer's time to investigate and prosecute an instance of animal abuse, court time, and shelter costs for feeding and medical care, and the maximum fine that can be imposed by a magistrate court is $1000 + 87.50 court costs. This amount is very seldom levied; instead fines of $100 or less are more typical. The shelter can recover some of it's costs if the animal is returned to the offender, but it's unlikely to recover enough if the animal is adopted out or euthanized.

Certainly the county could contract with the Humane Society or some other organization to run the shelter, but the county still has to pay something. For example, I think Greenville County contracts with the Greenville Humane Society to run the shelter there.

Animal welfare is a community issue, and the community should foot the bill, just as police protection is a community issue, and the community should foot the bill for that.

As to the actual cost of a large animal quarantine facility, I would estimate it to occupy about 1 acre and be less than $50,000 initial cost and perhaps $1,000 per year for maintenance and ground care. In addition, the paddocks can be used for dog runs when no large animals are present. As to staffing, I believe Ms. Walkewicz stated that PEARL would be involved in caring for horses seized, but PEARL doesn't work with goats, pigs, and cows.

I don't think we want to get into a "quota" situation where the animal control officers have to write many tickets per month to pay their own salaries.
__________________
Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses. Jake: Hit it.
superstar - member
386 posts


Nicole..I so commend you for what you do. You are representative of how things ought to be done. However, that model stops working when you move into expecting the county to pick up the tab incurred by a very small group of people engaging in a luxury.
Someone mentioned the costs associated with horses.... and that proves my point. The costs are huge..and though the return to those who chose to participate are enormous....I dont see why I have to get involved. The laws are clear. Enforce the law and pass the costs associated on breaking it back to the offenders.
Like dogs and cats should be licensed so that those who own them pay the cost of the shelter...so should large animal owners be charged all the fees necessary to run such an operation.
Then, take the monies raised and give them to responsible entities (Like PEARL, or the Humane Society) to run the associated shelters and rescue organizations.
But get the county out of the business..
anyway...again, I thank you for what you do...

-palmetto-native

Your post contradicts it's self. Unless law enforcement charges people with neglect, they can't recover costs. The have to file charges and then have the magistrates actually enforce the fines. Ask Animal Control how many repeat offenders for dog and cat abuse get reduced fines from our judges? If the state laws were used, they would be felonies and then repeat offenders wouldn't be able to own all those cats and dogs.

They still need a place to put the animals. Like you said, the law says you can't starve a pig, the county has to protect the pig. Refuse to do it and the county pays the cost.

How many on the alphabet streets can really afford a dog or cat? There are tons of people out in the "country" that live in squalor that can't afford a dog or cat yet they have them. Any domesticated animal is a luxury and the number of unwanted cats and dogs breeding constantly shows how irresponsible and poor the owners are. The county wouldn't be subsidizing the "low cost spay neuter" clinic if only responsible owners who have the cash to pay for their pets costs have them. It is obvious people that can't afford animals should not have them both big and small.

The table below provides the estimated average yearly cost of owning a cat or a dog according to the 2005-2006 APPMA National Pet Owners Survey:

Expense Dog Cat
Surgical Vet Visits $574 $337
Food $241 $185
Kennel Boarding $202 $119
Routine Veterinary Care $211 $179
Grooming $107 $24
Vitamins $123 $3
Treats $68 $43
Toys $45 $29
Average Yearly Cost $1,571 $919

Besides Palmetto Native, your scenario gives the system more incentive to turn their heads and look away. If they have no tool to enforce the laws, then they turn a blind eye to the horse left to die in the field. If they have a place to take it, people see it, watch it get healthy, then find a new home by being adopted. People will read that the owner was fined and other bad owners might think twice if they saw something was being done. It will bring more people to the shelter. It will educate more people about abuse and it will help stop the cause, ignorant owners that know the law won't do anything to them because they don't have the space.

You all ready pay for the luxury of people owning expensive animals and not caring for them. You are just a breed snob. Little kitties and dog, aww, big horse, too bad. The Humane Society get's their spay neuter clinic at the expense of the county, why shouldn't every group get space then? Is that discrimination or favoritism?

I say quit helping with this problem all together and let the HSUS,ASPCA and PETA come rolling into town. If they saw what this county allows they will make Anderson their national headquarters.

As long as people like you say ho-hum, not my problem the problem will remain. Maybe in your next life God will make you a stable hand and you'll shovel manure until you get it; all animals deserve protection and care by law, His and the states.

superstar - member
247 posts

Three point two million dollars for an animal shelter.Stop and think about thatfor a minute folks. Three point two million dollars. that is a hell of a lot of money for such a facility. To build such a facility and fail to address ANY issue involved with animal control or animal care is negligent and absurd. If they can't include the means to accept, evaluate, isolate and retain horses and cows in a three point two million dollar facility, something is verywrong.

superstar - member
423 posts

Good morning Plumbbob and thank you for being the voice of alarm. Something is very wrong. If PEARL were allowed to use the money saved by the donation of the land alone, just stick it in a earmarked fund, we could get the place the Sheriff needs built and have money left over to help them with the expenses.

JaneDoe makes a good point about animal ownership and the costs. Many people who can't afford them own them. The large animals have suffered badly as they are very susceptible to the drought and rise in feed costs, fertilizer etc. People that had horses and pastures now have starved horses and dirt.

Palmetto Native has an interesting idea - to get the county out of the animal business all together. Only law enforcement can enforce laws. I can't even come up with a five year plan for that idea because raising funds is unpredictable and time consuming.

There is another rescue organization of dedicated horse lovers who investigate abuse, take the pictures and information to the Magistrates, get a seizure warrant, execute the warrant, take the horses and sometimes fail to allow for due process. When some owners are finally found not negligent, the group hands the Court and owner a highly inflated bill that the owner can't pay and keep the horses. This doesn't seem right, so that's why PEARL works only with law enforcement, to let them do the legal part and insure the owners are treated fairly and according to the laws.

Sometimes the law chooses to turn their heads. Pure Thoughts Equine Rescue was turned in to the Abbeville several times for neglect and maltreatment. The Animal Control Officer never saw what he was looking at. It took an experienced horse shipper to get those horses the attention they needed. Oconee county was called about an old horse in a field with cancer. They told us the owners were having a "hard time putting him down". The horse was allowed to starve to death even though a vet had stated euthanasia was the only humane choice for the animal. The officers knew the family and didn't want to force them and, after all, "it's just a horse". Last week, the owner of the horses in Fair Play called me before we went out and said that Animal Control had been out "fifty million times, why was this any different?" One of the officers had been married into the family and admitted she tried to avoid this ugly situation. The owner works in the Healthcare industry. She knew she had starving animals as well, just didn't care. The neglect was willful but the officers chose not to charge her. I have to tell you that four of her horses were fed and well cared for so she knew how to feed a horse. I had never seen a starving pig before. People think they have a right to starve their animals, fight them or do as they please because "God gave man dominion over the animals". Well, that means morally and legally we have a responsibility to insure they are cared for and used humanely, not tortured, neglected and abused.

The Sheriff simply needs the means to do his job and in this case it's an affordable place to put these animals. I think Jane has a great point that it will bring people to the shelter and help raise awareness. I hadn't considered that in my reasoning to the people making decisions about the shelter, thanks Jane! Again, PEARL asked the county to build an intake facility for the Sheriff that cost less than 2.5% of the entire budget for the new cat and dog palace. That cost was less than the windfall from the donation of the land and they said, "if there is any money left over". Any other answers than "yes" is a "NO". How can that be justified? What the county is doing by refusing to build a place to put the animals would be the equivalent of saying, arrest criminal but we won't pay for a jail. How would that work?

Every time I get a call about a horse in Anderson I breathe a sigh of relief because I know the Sheriff will do what's right, ask for professional opinions, seize a horse or require the problem be corrected by the owner and go back to make sure they have complied. Other counties animals are not that fortunate. We are getting very good at finding solutions on a case by case basis but it is not the best answer for anyone working on these cases, costs additional time from the Sheriff's Office and places the entire burden on the people willing to make the effort. When our donations don't match what we need we either close down or spend our own money. Ask that from the county employees.

We are adopting a Marine Corps slogan, "improvise, adapt, and overcome".

__________________
They who fight in the dark do not shine in the light. Herbert Kaufman
?
305 posts

nicole,I think I have a better old Army slogan,We have done so much for so long,with so little,that we think we are now able to do the impossible with nothing.

superstar - member
423 posts

Well rino, I guess that means soldier on but we aren't giving up on getting something so we accomplish more.

__________________
They who fight in the dark do not shine in the light. Herbert Kaufman
?
305 posts


Well rino, I guess that means soldier on but we aren't giving up on getting something so we accomplish more.

-nicole-walukewicz

You get the general idea,never be satisfied with what you have,and always strive for more.Nothing is impossible for the person with a dream,and a good work ethic.

superstar - member
873 posts

I think the Sheriff's Office or the Solicitors Office needs to address this cost in their budget.

It is a state law and would be handled by those departments, not the Animal Shelter.

I do agree that any organization such as pearl should be reimbursed for cost incurred, but through the SO or Sol. They also would then be able to request reimbursement through the courts, as part of fines etc. Of course we all know if a person could afford to pay then their animals would not be impounded (usually) to start with.

__________________
Waiting to be Stimulated
superstar - member
247 posts

well, aventer, if we're going to put it on the Sheriff or solicitor, which are empowered to enforce state laws, can we drop this expensive and stupid effort by Gracie Floyd to come up with an animal control ordinance that will protect haqmsters but noty horses? Maybe now that McNair law firm will be leaving the county, we can start letting common sense instead of legal expenses set the tone for county policy?
Can I get an AMEN!?

?
305 posts


well, aventer, if we're going to put it on the Sheriff or solicitor, which are empowered to enforce state laws, can we drop this expensive and stupid effort by Gracie Floyd to come up with an animal control ordinance that will protect haqmsters but noty horses? Maybe now that McNair law firm will be leaving the county, we can start letting common sense instead of legal expenses set the tone for county policy?Can I get an AMEN!?

-plumbbob

Your keyboard is secretly adding letters to your post.And just who in the RIR gang, informed you that the Mc Nair Law Firm was going anywhere?It still remains to be seen whether the newly elected council members will be their own men,or be men owned by the Klan.

fanatic - member
3890 posts

Oh no you didn't!

I have to chime in here, and as usual the scores of thumbs down are sure to follow.  But that's expected.

All this bitchin, moanin and whining about the $3.2 mill........ What kind of piece of s&%t  would you prefer they build?  Something like Upstate Animal Rescue, a open hay barn with no air, no walls and no improvement over the 50 year prison they have now?   What exactly do you think will be built for that pittance?  Contractors are charging nearly $300 A SQUARE FOOT nowadays, PLUS CAPITOL IMPROVEMENTS NEEDED LIKE SEWER CONNECTIONS, WATER LINES AND NEW ELECTRICAL RUNS. That is for simple buildings, and not something like an animal shelter which has many extras needed like higher ceilings, stronger walls and better ventilations.  Suppose nobody has priced copper lately either.  And where is all the whining and moaning about the OPEN-ENDED audit touted at costing nearly $2.5 million??????  Hmmm?   I see, lets dis on small animals, they don't vote or pay taxes.Because Gracie Floyd wants to improve the lot of those creatures, it's BAD business.  But as long as MCW says lets do it, all is good with the world.

Ms. Nicole W.   while I certainly applaud and commend YOUR sincere efforts to protect and defend the large equine population, I have to say simply you have skrued the pooch with your incessant disparity and lack of support of this project. Even when we had our meeting at Golden Corral, you had nothing positive to say about Michele or the staff from the shelter, the combined efforts to even bring this issue to the table, or those who have fought for more than 6 years to bring legislation to Anderson regarding small animal regulation, providing large animal laws and fines for breeders and more. It was all about your groups struggles, like none of US have had them. None of us other volunteers are battling sickness brought into our homes or farms from animals rescued, or medical costs NEVER repaid or recouped, or not having suport for our effort from any civil agencies which require their care..  I'm sorry large animals cost more, but thats the result to be expected. OF COURSE a 1200 lb animal needs more than a 15 lb dog or 10 lb cat. Luckily you HAVE friends and family which can help with medical care or offer options for placement. Some of us do not have such luxuries or optionsorral From our understanding of your involvement with the county, any animal siezed by the Sheriff and placed with you also garners your group the financial repayment of monies from fines and penalties from court or Sheriff.  Is that not correct?  I cannot say OUR efforts receive ANY repayment from abuse cases, abandonment issues or medical costs we incur.  At the meeting at Golden Corral, you had said you want the County to repay your expenses for water use, hay, boarding,  electricity and medical supplies used, in addition to fine monies received currently.   This was heard by several of us, so I am not mistaken in what you wanted don. I can only believe this is the motivation behind the lack of support behind the new shelter is financial loss and personal control of the situation.  But I digress.

  Because of several council persons, who ain't worth the powder to blow them to hell, the measures all died  and only by the "grace of Gracie" did THIS measure even have a second life.  From words with those in the know, all you have done by openly being critical and oppositional to this as it was planned, is put your hopes of getting confinement arenas and adequate large animal care areas in great jeopardy.  The support for this has diminished greatly! What I hear is now they are willing to let PEARL and other groups struggle to find support and legislation on their own, to provide what was ALREADY planned for all along.  While openly it will be denied, in closed offices I know this is the thinking.  It only hurt your cause more than disparaging Gracie and Council will ever help PEARL or SCARE or most importantly, the ANIMALS.  But I still think you and your group can do good things with this if you are willing to wrok WITH everyone instead of against them.  Again I think highly of your helping the horses, cows, llamas and other animals I have no place to help out with.  I only wish everyone would work together instead of apart.

 

 

 

__________________
Designated President of the Warm & Fuzzy Club. DBAA
superstar - member
423 posts


I think the Sheriff's Office or the Solicitors Office needs to address this cost in their budget.

It is a state law and would be handled by those departments, not the Animal Shelter.

I do agree that any organization such as pearl should be reimbursed for cost incurred, but through the SO or Sol. They also would then be able to request reimbursement through the courts, as part of fines etc. Of course we all know if a person could afford to pay then their animals would not be impounded (usually) to start with.

-a-venter

a venter - the only reason Animal Control has the authority to enforce the laws on the county level for any animals is that there is a county ordinance that says they can. One solution was to change the current ordinance - JUST ONE CHANGE - redefine "animal" as all vertebrates of the non-human species and allow Animal Control to do the job for all animals. The other is to abolish the county ordinance that deals with pets and move the entire budget and personnel over to the Sheriff and then designate the Animal Shelter for the Sheriff's Office use for all the county animals. Extreme I know but to have two enforcement agencies doing basically the same thing and building two different facilities seems duplicitous and wasteful. State laws cover all animals.

Thank you for understanding the Sheriff needs money in his budget to enforce the laws and have a place to put the animals when needed. Now if you can just get the County Council to understand that I would be grateful.

Just today Anderson had a mini-horse “jump out of a trailer” on Highway 24 and a starved mare surrendered t o the county. She is with PEARL for now and pending the veterinarian’s assessment and how she does in the next 48 hours she might be rehabilitated. So you can see that the Sheriff needs some tools to work with to do their job.
Thanks for your comments,
Nicole

__________________
They who fight in the dark do not shine in the light. Herbert Kaufman
superstar - member
873 posts


well, aventer, if we're going to put it on the Sheriff or solicitor, which are empowered to enforce state laws, can we drop this expensive and stupid effort by Gracie Floyd to come up with an animal control ordinance that will protect haqmsters but noty horses? Maybe now that McNair law firm will be leaving the county, we can start letting common sense instead of legal expenses set the tone for county policy?
Can I get an AMEN!?

-plumbbob


I really don't know how to answer you on this one, I can tell you that the shelter and Animal Control Officers came be4 Council to ask for the ordinance to be amended. Well I learned a long time ago, an ordinance is a County Law and has to be written in Lawyer terms that no one but Lawyers can understand, hereto and wherefore etc. If not written that way then the Lawyers would be out of business, not the ones writing it, but the ones, one would hire to defend them in case a hamster gets flushed while still breathing.

In any case I know nothing about what is or was proposed, but I do know County Constables/Park Police can not enforce State Laws, County Law can not supersede State Law, therefore Large animals investigated by Animal Control as a County agency ain't gonna happen.

__________________
Waiting to be Stimulated
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