Lefora Free Forum
login join
Loading
216 views

Modern-Day Carpetbaggers

Page 1
(items) 1–16 of 16
fanatic - member
2784 posts

Having been absent the past few day, I realized that I had quite a bit of reading to catch up on. Most notible among the missed posts is this ongoing discussion about "check this out," and a gentleman named Howard Rich.

Now, if you care to believe the likes of lee-cole, from said thread, Mr. Rich simply cares about SC Children enough to want to save the school system from burecrats that spend money like drunken sailors, but with no results. Before we continue, I am for both public schools and responsible spending in public schools. All too often I feel that vouchers are used as the panacea for fixing our public school system. We can debate the merits of vouchers in another thread. This thread will focus on just who Howard Rich is and why should we care about his level of concern when it comes to his interest in SC Schools.

First - a little about Mr. Rich.

Mr. Rich is a Libertarian. Nothing wrong with that - just need to use it as a point of reference for our ongoing discussion. His background is in Real Estate and Political Activism. Mr. Rich hails from the great state of New York.

If anything, I would expect Mr. Rich, coming from New York, more specifically, NYC, to advocate emulating NYC successful school system, testing, and gifted and talented programs. Gifted and talented programs/schools like The Bronx High School of Science, which has produced numerous Nobel Prize Winners in Physics as well as a famous writer many conservatives here should recognize: William Safire.

The Bronx High School of Science is a PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOL ... one of the best in the nation for math and science.

(Source: http://www.bxscience.edu/history.jsp)

Instead, what we find from Mr. Rich is a libertarian advocate that believes in empowering the individual to choose the best school for their children via a voucher program. Seems pretty normal, right? Lets take a closer look at the man who "just wants to save our kids."

Start reading:
http://www.stophowardrichsc.blogspot.com/

Specifically, what I find interesting is Mr. Rich's ties locally to Anderson. In fact, you might recognize one of the folks on that website. That would be one Mr. Dan Harvell. More to the point, 74% of funding for Mr. Harvell's campaing for the House came from out-of-state interests, specifically, folks tied into Mr. Rich's network.

Take a closer look at Mr. Harvell's funding here:
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/candidate.phtml?c=87067

So SSHM, that was two years ago and one person in a failed bid to get to the State House. What does it matter, right?

Wrong - it matters a great deal.

Mr. Rich (and associates), for whom we should address as the Carpetbagger that he is, backed a SIZEABLE number of office holders all over the state. Lets look into the who's who of "bought and paid for by Mr. Rich," shall we:

Listing Winners and Losers
Brad Cain - District 1 (SC House - 2006) - 99% Funding
Michael Letts - District 79 (SC House - 2006) - 92% Funding
Roz Mir - District 137 (SC House - 2006) - 99% Funding
Rep. Don C. Bowen - District 8 (SC House - 2006) - 69% Funding
Rep. Michael A. Pitts - District 14 (SC House - 2006) - 54% Funding
Rep. Kit Spires - District 96 (SC House - 2006) - 58% Funding
Rep. Curtis Brantley - District 122 (SC House - 2006) - 84% Funding

The worst of all is our Governor, Mark Sanford. In 2006, Governor Sanford took in $24,500 in contributions from elements within the Mr. Rich network. Money donated in $3500 increments in an effort to exploit a campaign donation loophole that involve LLCs.

Going back to followthemoney.com, we can see where specifically 123 Lasalle Inc, based out of New York City, donated $3500 twice to the Sanford Campaign:
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/contributor_details.phtml?c=87187&d=350763877

Ok SSHM, maybe Mr. Rich and his associates/network/web just really do care about righting the "education ship" in South Carolina, much like lee-cole eluded to in the original post, "check this out."

Sadly this is not the case. What we are looking at is a power grab that is being masked at a grassroots level; masked under the guise of helping our children achieve better in school.

Remember that 123 Lasalle Inc that gave money to Governor Sanford? Well, that same group out of New York City also gave to this campaign in Louisiana:
http://www.followthemoney.org/database/StateGlance/contributor.phtml?d=351768271

Going back to the original page, where a lot of this information is simply organized (http://www.stophowardrichsc.blogspot.com/), you'll see where Mr. Rich and crew are in hot water in other states:

1. In Oklahoma, Rich has spent over $1 million on initiatives championed by two local groups, Oklahomans in Action and Oklahomans for Good Government. The president of Oklahomans in Action, which received 97% of its funding from Rich's Americans for Limited Government, was indicted in October 2007 on two felony counts: conspiracy to defraud the state and filing a fraudulent initiative petition.

2. In Missouri, Rich funneled $2.9 million towards initiatives that were thrown off the ballot in 2006 for non-compliance with state law. Actual Missourians contributed only $150 to the ballot initiatives. Missourians In Charge, the group established to support the measures, was dissolved in early 2007.

3. In Montana, Rich’s initiatives were rejected from the ballot due to "pervasive fraud" in the signature gathering process. Montanans in Action, the group established to support the measures, has refused to disclose its funding and is currently under investigation by the Montana attorney general.

4. In Louisiana, Rich in 2007 established "Lousianans in Action," a political action committee used to direct money from his various LLC's to pro-voucher forces in that state. Like in South Carolina, these LLC's have been used to circumvent established individual campaign contribution limits.

So ... what does all of this mean? Where does it all go?

Read more here:
http://www.howierichexposed.com/

Then understand what TABOR is and why it is bad (and what it has done in Colorado):
http://www.cbpp.org/ssl-series.htm

In fact, in closing, it's SO important to understand what TABOR is, I'm going to post the first paragraph from the above link:

TABOR is a state tax and expenditure limit that includes the following elements: it is a constitutional amendment; it restricts revenue or expenditure growth to the sum of inflation plus population change; and it requires voter approval to override the revenue or spending limits. In Colorado, where the so-called “Taxpayer Bill of Rights” or TABOR was adopted in 1992, public services have deteriorated significantly. For example, between 1992 and 2001, Colorado declined from 35th to 49th in the nation in K-12 spending as a share of personal income. Colorado now ranks 48th in higher education funding as a share of personal income— down from 35th in 1992. Between 1991 and 2004 — a period in which the percentage of children who are uninsured declined nationally — the proportion of low-income children who lack health insurance in Colorado doubled. Colorado now ranks last in the nation on this measure. In addition, between 1992 and 2002, Colorado declined from 23rd to 48th in the nation in access to prenatal care, a sign of funding shortages in local health clinics.

Now ... does TABOR sound familiar folks? Does this not sound like something Mr. Harvell et al are in favor of? Does this not sound like something Mr. Bryant et al are in favor of?

Let the discussion begin about the dangers of Mr. Rich and his kudzu-like influence into politics, from the local level and points beyond.

- SSHM

__________________
"I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you . . ." - Neo
fanatic - admin
6536 posts
So here's my question, SSHM. How does Howard Rich PERSONALLY profit if school vouchers become a reality in South Carolina? Is his interest financial, or purely altruistic? Inquiring minds want to know.
__________________
"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
?
1018 posts

Want to fix the schools, get the retarded crap for brains politicians out of education. Let the teachers teach the material rather than just teaching kids how to take the yearly test and let the administrators expel the bad apples, and give tax cuts for families whose kids do well.

Schools and teachers aren't failing, POLITICIANS (like K. Bryant) and PARENTS are the ones who are the lousy useless miserable failures who can't accept what they are and in turn blame the schools for their shortcomings. These failures are the ones who are keeping the schools and kids from succeeding not the teachers....

__________________
If you we're any damn dumber, we'd have to hire someone to follow you around and remind you to breathe!!!
fanatic - member
2784 posts

JD,

Not to sound like a new-age hippie, but what are you calling "PERSONALLY profiting" in this situation? I tend to take a bigger picture view of all of this. Profit comes down the road, in the form of influence and power. Let's say I'm Howard Rich for a moment. I and my group of investors are injecting millions of dollars into several states - school vouchers. Getting folks elected that will work with me and not against me.

So it's power JD . . . along with wealth. Ahh, but SSHM, you haven't explained how one gets rich from vouchers. Yes, yes, I'm getting to that . . .

Ever hear of something called Proposition 90? Let's read up on it, shall we:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20061015-9999-1n15prop90.html

Now - look at the groups involved in pushing Prop 90 in California. Chase the money down, and you will find Howard Rich et al. Why would Rich want to support Prop 90 in California. His supporters will say "oh he's just a libertarian pushing for more libertarian causes." The truth seekers will see where he, as a real estate mogul, seeks to push the State of California out of the property acquisition business - thus eliminating competition for him in the process.

I'm going to cut to the chase here folks: Howard Rich is the Libertarian version of George Soros and moveon.org. Now, do you REALLY want either man or their respective networks entangling themselves in your state, in your local government?

The truth is out there: Google harder.

- SSHM

__________________
"I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you . . ." - Neo
fanatic - admin
6536 posts

Are Soros and Rich really any different from the NRA, the NAACP, NOW, NEA and Morris Dees bogus little "Southern Poverty Law Center" as far as "entangling themselves in (our) state and local government," SSHM?

And I do think it's interesting that you believe Rich is trying to push the State of California out of the property acquisition business, but I hardly see how giving campaign funds to candiates in South Carolina is going to have any effect on that agenda.

SSHM, we all have an agenda, some local and some regional and national. You are angry at and wary of this one because you don't agree with his agenda. And you're setting out to prove that any local poliician who agrees that vouchers are a good idea are somehow corrupted by being allied with a national organization that believes the same thing.

That, my friend, is a totally bogus spin on the facts. George Soros, whom I personally wish would drop off the face of the planet or go back to Greece, and Howard Rich have every right to use their personal wealth to influence the national debate. There is nothing illegal or improper about it, whether you and I like it or not. You know it. I know it. I would hope everybody knows it.

Not every outside agitator is a "carpetbagger" you know. Sometimes, it takes outside influences to shake us out of local complacency long enough to do something PROGRESSIVE, like approving school vouchers. Take a look at the roster of prominent names in the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. Were all of those people local, or do you see a few from, say, Detroit and Chicago in there?

__________________
"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
fanatic - member
2784 posts

JD,

The difference between the groups you outlined and Howard Rich is simple: They are at least above board in what they do. They don't use LLC loop-holes to give to prospective supporters. Nice of you to just gloss over that. It's par for the course when deaing with you, I suppose.

The fact that you keep taking the JD "Well Golly-Gee" Clampett approach to everything boggles my mind. Put the pieces together. Take this individual and his band of investors and look at them for who they are, not for what you want them to be.

As I said before, if you want to discuss vouchers, we can create another thread and discuss that there. This topic, a topic YOU are attempting to twist about, is about HOW and WHO Howard Rich funds; the questionable methods used to reach his goals.

There is no spin when comparing George Soros and Howard Rich to one another. They have similar goals and similar networks for exection and implementation of their goals. Granted, Soros has more money and a larger network, but, the facts remain.

As for the claim about not every outside agitator is a "carpetbagger," let's go back over what I put in the OP:

1. In Oklahoma, Rich has spent over $1 million on initiatives championed by two local groups, Oklahomans in Action and Oklahomans for Good Government. The president of Oklahomans in Action, which received 97% of its funding from Rich's Americans for Limited Government, was indicted in October 2007 on two felony counts: conspiracy to defraud the state and filing a fraudulent initiative petition.

Fraud ... not good there Mr. Clampett.

2. In Missouri, Rich funneled $2.9 million towards initiatives that were thrown off the ballot in 2006 for non-compliance with state law. Actual Missourians contributed only $150 to the ballot initiatives. Missourians In Charge, the group established to support the measures, was dissolved in early 2007.

Did you see that ... folks IN THE STATE OF MISSOURI only contributed $150 to his grand efforts there. Talk about SHOW ME . . .

3. In Montana, Rich’s initiatives were rejected from the ballot due to "pervasive fraud" in the signature gathering process. Montanans in Action, the group established to support the measures, has refused to disclose its funding and is currently under investigation by the Montana attorney general.

Secret money sources . . . fraud in the signature-gathering process. Sounds like a fine upstanding group of folks I want involved in my child's educational process.

4. In Louisiana, Rich in 2007 established "Lousianans in Action," a political action committee used to direct money from his various LLC's to pro-voucher forces in that state. Like in South Carolina, these LLC's have been used to circumvent established individual campaign contribution limits.

Operating above the law, JD? This isn't some episode of Knight Rider. You have OUT OF STATE groups who HAVE BOUGHT LAWMAKERS under the guise of SCHOOL CHOICE. Out of state groups, that, if you noted, have OUTSTANDING PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEMS (shall we go BACK to the Bronx AGAIN, Mr. JD, or is that too much of a drive from Pickens/Easley).

I'm glad you're able to put your head in the sand over there in Pickens sir and ignore what is going on. Then again, I suspect you are too tied up trying to pry Upstate Forever out of your county.

Oh wait ... wouldn't UF be similar to those groups you listed - groups that "entangle themselves in (out) state and local government," hmmm? Do us all a favor: If you are going to put your head in the sand and do nothing, please leave it there, lest you look like a hypocrite when you remove it to speak.

- SSHM

__________________
"I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you . . ." - Neo
regular - member
190 posts

I personally think that people like Kevin Bryant, Dan Harvell and Don Bowen have given us enough reasons to reject them from consideration for public office on their own merits, without even having to examine their ties to carpetbaggers like Rich. I can't speak for SSHM, but my differences with those three guys run the gamunt. Bryant and Harvell, and their misguided loyalty to Sanford and the other anti-guvment, non-community-minded elements in the political realm, are much more adept at the politics of personal destruction than in promoting good public policy. One need only look at their involvement in the "rotten to the core" runoff campain by Bob Waldrep for evidence. Both were pivotal figures in developing and promulgating the negative, hate-based campaign propoganda about Joey Preston. Yet, when you look at what Kevin has accomplished in Columbia in terms of meaningful legislation, he is a miserable failure by any measure. And thank God the voters of Townsend's district were wise enoungh to support Mike Gambrell over Harvell the High Point Marvel. As for Bowen, stick a fork in him.....he's done.

fanatic - admin
6536 posts

First, SSHM, you paint me with too broad a brush on the Upstate Forever issues. I am fully supportive of UF's efforts to work with preservationists groups and the state to purchase and set aside large tracts of land in order to protect them from future development. What I'm fighting is the efforts of some of their more anti-development elements to gain a stranglehold on dictating Pickens County's development standards and future zoning ordinances. If you truly want Anderson County to be open to future industrial expansion, you really should be doing likewise over there.

Having said that, Upstate Forever has every right to use its influence any way it wants to use it, including giving money to local political candidates. Howard Rich, George Soros, the NAACP, NOW, the NRA and other organizations have absolutely lthe same right to use their money, their influence and their words to influence local issues that have national implications.

The candidates you have listed who received money from Rich or his associates are candidates who already back school vouchers. There is nothing illegal or improper about accepting money from a like-minded organization that agrees with you. It is only improper if somebody uses money to induce a candidate or elected official to CHANGE a vote.

And I'll agree that fraud is not good, but I'll also note that both the Democrat and Republican parties in recent years have gotten in trouble for using paid operatives to sign up voters in several states. It happens in any large orgnization, and I would never defend such fraudulent practics. That doesn't make it right. It's just not rare when any organization has critics who go after it with the law because they can't fight it in the arena of ideas and political philosophy.

But if you feel anything FRAUDULENT is going on in South Carolina, by all means report it to the S.C. Attorney General or, perhaps, the Secretary of State. There is certainly a mechanism in place to deal with fraud and misrepresentation. The Cocklebur ain't it.

As for my hypocrisy, as you call it, I will deny that. I have never complained about out-of-state money going to anybody's campaign, and I do not see fit to complain about Howard Rich. And as long as the NEA has its tentacles all over state-to-state issues, I'll defend Rich's involvement in efforts to counter those teachers' unions.

You anti-voucher types aren't trying to win the war of ideas. You are trying to silence through intimidation those who support vouchers. I really hate to disappoint you, but just as the idea of producing more oil domestically and the idea the privte gun ownership is an INDIVIDUAL and not a collective right have gained the upper hand recently, the idea of vouchers, I think, will ultimately prevail.

But you know what really aggravates me about this? Vouchers aren't an issue one way or another with me, really. My children are already through school, and I continue to pay taxes for education in Pickens County. My issue is in insuring that nobody is scared away from the political process because of a fear of being mocked by the likes of you and White Plains Drifter.

You two really are in the minority in Anderson County, but when you turn on the megaphones and the fire hoses and turn the dogs of deception loose on those who disagree with you, we know how the protestors in Selma, Alabama, felt back in 1965. Now, I don't mean to liken this stuggle to that of those brave Civil Rights protestors who came from all over the country to participate in that battle, but at some point, our children and grandchildren are going to find a way to escape from the shackles and chains of government education and indoctrination, despite your best efforts to stpo them from doing so.

You two - just like some of Joey Preston's critics you so detest - are nothing more than cheap bullies. Many of us, though, can't be bullied. As for me, a lot of people a lot smarter (and a lot meaner) than you have tried and failed. But have a go at it anyway, sir. You will have about as much success against me as you had pushing your RINO candidates on June 10.

You are a failure, and you will continue to be a failure no matter how much you harp and twist facts and shout on The Cocklebur. I really find it amusing that you still have the audacity to claim any credibility at all after the recent election, but I suppose you're one of those people who will always be in denial, huh?

And, White Plains Drifter when enough voters decide they disagree with Bryant, they'll throw him out and send somebody else in to take his place. NEWS FLASH: It won't be this year.

You know, the first step to recovery is to admit you're a loser, SSHM. Maybe you and White Plains Drifter should hold hands and take that fierst step together. We can discuss the second step later.

__________________
"Would you like to play a game?" - Department of Defense computer in "WarGames"
regular - member
190 posts

SSHM, I think we hit a nerve with JD. I earnestly believe that on all the issues one should consider in voting for a Senator, Kevin is a failure and should be replaced. And I believe he will be replaced this year. Unfortunately for Bryant, Joey Preston can't be made a boogeyman in his own race as he was made to be in Waldrep's race. And Meadors will make Kevin account for his own abyssmal record in Columbia. Bryant does not support public education. He publicly campaigned against the School District #5 referrendum. He has done nothing to improve health care. He has not only failed to secure any meaningful state funding for Anderson County but voted to sustain Sanford's veto of $800,000 in grant funds for Anderson County. We can do better in Columbia, and come January we will. There are enough votes in the 3 school districts and at AnMed to give Marshall a huge start. Throw in the Obama juggernaut and poof Bryant becomes a former state senator. Perhaps he can hone his negative campaigning skills and run for Bob's seat on Council next time . As for name-calling, don't waste it on me. I'm hardly a bully and we've all been losers a time or two (remember tri-county landfill).

fanatic - member
1784 posts

Do you really think that Vouchers are the goal? I find it interesting that the supposed goal is to spend millions...or even tens of millions..of dollars to buy the general assembly just for the purpose of affecting 1 single outcome..

For someone who is so proud of his ability to use reason and logic and the facts to figure out the "real story" JD.... that suprises me.

You know, a madame doesnt spend a lot of money dressing and cleaning up her whores just to get 1 good night out of them...

and I doubt that Howard Rich will either...

Thats what bothers me. I like the idea of vouchers, and so do many if not most people in SC...which becomes the perfect hook to get normal citizens to vote for these guys...its just what comes next when these bought and paid for politicians reveal their real purpose...

regular - member
190 posts

My sentiments exactly PN. I am more much more concerned with what I know about the overall ideologies of the Bryants, Harvells and Bowens than I am with their positions on this single issue. These guys are not consensus builders. Since the 2000 Presidential election, confidence in our political system has been in a free fall. And it is in large part to lack of elected leaders with the ability to unify constituents and colleagues for the common good. The "winner take all mentality" of today's leaders will destroy our country if we don't begin to elect people who represent 100 percent of their constituents and not just the 54% percent that elected them. Neither Bryant nor Harvell are statesmen capable of building coalitions to achieve good public policy. Indeed, Bryant has thus far been a mere pawn of Sanford. We can do better.

?
1018 posts

White Plains Drifter- "if we don't begin to elect people who represent 100 percent of their constituents and not just the 54% percent that elected them"

So you're suggesting outlawing the dissenting opinions of people who aren't the majority?

__________________
If you we're any damn dumber, we'd have to hire someone to follow you around and remind you to breathe!!!
regular - member
190 posts

Nope. Laws aren't required to do what I say needs to be done. Our elections just should not be so dramatic in terms of who wins. If you could count on either candidate to pull people together rather than drive wedges, the vast majority of us would be served. Those on the right fringe as well as those on the left fringe should just always be miserable. Those of us in the middle of the spectrum (80 percent), should be relatively confortable that our elected representatives will serve our interests and not lean too far in either direction. When we achieve that, we'll have representative government.

?
1018 posts

white-plains-drifter- "Those of us in the middle of the spectrum (80 percent), should be relatively confortable that our elected representatives will serve our interests and not lean too far in either direction."

You mean the 80% that are so complacent and ignorant that they actually believe what their respective political parties tell them? The same group that's so ill informed that they think that anyone who isn't a Democrap or Republpuke is a nut job? NO THANKS!! They're the reason we're in this mess to begin with, they're the ones who let their party leaders take advantage of them and then the poor dumb fools still just do as they're told.....Never just settle when it comes to politicians, you should never take their word. You should question, question and question again, expose, push back, punch, kick, sucker punch, elbow, knee, gouge, bite, or whatever it takes to get to the WHOLE truth of the matter.....

__________________
If you we're any damn dumber, we'd have to hire someone to follow you around and remind you to breathe!!!
regular - member
190 posts

Nope, I'm just saying there's not a dime's worth of difference between the vast majority of Americans who are either moderate Democrats or moderate Republicans. It is the radical wackos like Kevin Bryant and Mark Sanford on the right, and Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kacinich on the left that we must always worry about. When we quit allow ourselves to be baited by all these extemist nut jobs, we'll have sensible government.

fanatic - member
2784 posts

WPD, PN, and ZN:

Indeed it looks likes JD is a tad cranky and touchy when it comes to the likes of Howard Rich et al. Apparently, the grizzled journalist is more than a little touchy when it comes to:

1.) Scooping him on topics that require skills of an investigative journalist.

2.) School Vouchers (which, if he hadn't failed reading comprehension, would see that I HAVEN'T TAKEN A STAND ONE WAY OR ANOTHER ON THE ISSUE).

Now if he is done throwing a temper-tantrum, the adults in this thread would like to continue to have a discussion about Howard Rich and how he buys people through legislative agendas.

Let's go back and watch this video together:
http://www.cbpp.org/videos/tabor-long.wmv

If you watch the video, you will see a lot of good-hearted individuals that believed in TABOR; the concept of limiting government growth and spending. The end result was dramatically different however. Colorado is paying dearly for TABOR.

Look at what Bryant, Harvell, etc support. Look at who funds them. Understand what their end goal is and that the end goal they seek has FAILED. Watch the video. Keep an open mind. There is no need to repeat the failures of Colorado here in South Carolina. WE CAN LEARN FROM THE MISTAKES OF OTHERS.

- SSHM

__________________
"I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you . . ." - Neo
Page 1
(items) 1–16 of 16

Locked Topic


You must be a member to post in this forum

Join Now!