The Idiot Electorate

If there was EVER an example of a break within the party . . .

- SSHM

This almost deserves a thread of its own.

The Break.

What is this break in the SC GOP? How does a party that was driven by powerhouses like Carroll Campbell and Lee A*censored*er, a state that has delivered Republican victory after Republican victory, fail today?

I'll let Michael Graham elaborate:

That was then. Today, there isn't a Republican in South Carolina who can deliver the state. Gov. Mark Sanford is popular with voters, but the state's Republican legislators loathe him for injecting his small-government libertarianism into local pork barrel politics.

Rut-ro . . . the cat is out of the bag.

Find the entire article here.

So . . . the RhINOs, folks are the Libertarians. Be careful which Republicans you call RhINOs ... you may end up shooting your own.


- SSHM

EDIT: It's funny that the Cocklebur censors A--T--W--A--T--E--R

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

-Ronald Reagan in Reason Magazine, July 1975

Seeing as you brought up the Electorate topic:
Im sorry, but I find this super-delegate/electorate college 'program' a load of hooey. Why should the power to run a nation be placed in the hands of a "elitist" rich and powerful few.
From my understanding of it, the Electorate College was begun to counter the ballot-stuffing and posturing from land barons and social upper crust who could READ, afford the time away from the south 40-thousand acres, and vote at the same time. Most slaves didn't vote, neither did minorities, women or "poor folks". Voting was for all intents and purposes for those who'd benefit from their candidate being in power. And those representing this league were in control anyways.
It's high time this archaic method was done away with, the majority vote or popular vote wins and thats that. Tired of all this swing vote crap making my life worse

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

-Ronald Reagan in Reason Magazine, July 1975

- Lee Cole

Nice to know you read FITSNews too. How about we give the folks the full article, eh?

The Republican Dichotomy - Old-School Conservatism versus Millennial Republicanism

Enjoy . . . there is a rift here. Sorry Kevin - no fixing or mending this divide.


- SSHM

If there was EVER an example of a break within the party . . .

- SSHM

This almost deserves a thread of its own.

The Break.

What is this break in the SC GOP? How does a party that was driven by powerhouses like Carroll Campbell and Lee A*censored*er, a state that has delivered Republican victory after Republican victory, fail today?

I'll let Michael Graham elaborate:

That was then. Today, there isn't a Republican in South Carolina who can deliver the state. Gov. Mark Sanford is popular with voters, but the state's Republican legislators loathe him for injecting his small-government libertarianism into local pork barrel politics.

Rut-ro . . . the cat is out of the bag.

Find the entire article here.

So . . . the RhINOs, folks are the Libertarians. Be careful which Republicans you call RhINOs ... you may end up shooting your own.


- SSHM

EDIT: It's funny that the Cocklebur censors A--T--W--A--T--E--R

- SSHM

I really tire of the whole RINO schtick. That label is applied to any Republican who doesn't fall in lockstep with the more conservative/libertarian elements of the party. Sanford's bunch throws that label around quite a bit.

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

-Ronald Reagan in Reason Magazine, July 1975

- Lee Cole

Nice to know you read FITSNews too. How about we give the folks the full article, eh?

The Republican Dichotomy - Old-School Conservatism versus Millennial Republicanism

Enjoy . . . there is a rift here. Sorry Kevin - no fixing or mending this divide.


- SSHM

- SSHM

I do read FITSNews every day and am glad to see you do as well. Will Folks is a friend of mine and the best political writer in the state in my opinion. Also, here is a copy of Reagan's 1975 interview in which he says this.

I think the reason people use terms like RINOs is that they are tired of Jimmy Carter Republicans (social conservatives/fiscal liberals) who get elected by promising to be conservative then break their promises. Most people including Democrats are socially conservative or moderate, so to me that simply just doesn't cut it anymore when someone is trying to get my vote. The true mark of a conservative in this time period is the courage to stand up to government growth and tax increases.

If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.

-Ronald Reagan in Reason Magazine, July 1975

- Lee Cole

Nice to know you read FITSNews too. How about we give the folks the full article, eh?

The Republican Dichotomy - Old-School Conservatism versus Millennial Republicanism

Enjoy . . . there is a rift here. Sorry Kevin - no fixing or mending this divide.


- SSHM

- SSHM

I do read FITSNews every day and am glad to see you do as well. Will Folks is a friend and the best political writer in the state in my opinion. Also, here is a copy of Reagan's 1975 interview in which he says this.

I think the reason people use terms like RINOs is that they are tired of Jimmy Carter Republicans (social conservatives/fiscal liberals) who get elected by promising to be conservative then break their promises. Most people including Democrats are socially conservative or moderate, so to me that simply just doesn't cut it anymore when someone is trying to get my vote. The true mark of a conservative in this time period is the courage to stand up to government growth and tax increases.

- Lee Cole

You get my vote, LEE.

Reagan would roll over in his grave knowing some of the folks we have elected were calling themselves republicans.

Rut-ro . . . the cat is out of the bag.

The cat's out of the bag alright. SSHM is a tax and spender. He's happy for government to take your money and spend it.

And, there's no "H" in RINO

Rut-ro . . . the cat is out of the bag.

The cat's out of the bag alright. SSHM is a tax and spender. He's happy for government to take your money and spend it.

And, there's no "H" in RINO

- major taylor

No Taylor,

I'm a fiscal conservative and a social moderate. For the record, being fiscally conservative does not mean that you never raise taxes. Specific to Anderson County, and as I have explained at length in other threads (the early days of Anderson County Council - talk about folks who spent nothing and got nothing), here in this county, I would be classified as a RhINO because I don't fit the "new libertarian outlook" or "libertarian expectations" of some GOP members.

This is a rift. A rift that will, if not addressed at the state level, bring about the resurection of the Southern Democrat (in the style of Sam Nunn). There must be room at the table for both the social libertarians and the social moderates.

Calling folks, like myself, "tax and spend" and "RhINOs" does nothing but weaken and errode the GOP in this state. I'm sorry (dripping sarcasam) my idea of fiscal conservatism involves responsible spending while yours equates to NO spending - EVER.

Mark my words: These so-called RhINOs, that are not RhINOs, will not hesistate to cross the isle this November and vote for a different State Senator (District 3), if for nothing else but to prove a point.

So, shall we work together, or is this where we draw the lines? As I recall, to house an elephant under a tent, we had to have a big and open tent.

It appears someone shrunk the tent.


- SSHM

The only thing big and open in your world is my wallet. If tax and spend were the solution to our problems, then we'd have no problems (i'd love to take credit for that, but I can't).

The cause of the erosion of the GOP in this state and the nation is its proclivity to spend, spend and spend some more. Tell me the last incumbent that lost an election because they refused to raise taxes. Explain the election, twice, of Mark Sanford.

Look, if you like taking other people's money, that's fine. If you like legislators who call themselves Republicans and behave that way, fine. Just stop telling me your a conservative. No one believes it anymore.

And, there's no "H" in RINO.

It is no wonder Benjamin Franklin and some of our other Founding Fathers had the foresight to include an Electoral College system. Based on what I heard on the radio this morning, there are a number of sheep wandering around Anderson.

Let me get very specific here: Ricky Dribble has another one of his "famous yet unidentified" callers call in and state that Raymond MacKay was a Democrat and that Bob Waldrep was a true Republican.

Pull the short-bus over for just one minute, lady.

If there was EVER an example of a break within the party or a RhINO, it is Bob Waldrep (aka Rip van Waldrep).

As recently as 1992, Bob was a DEMOCRAT (along with all of these other yahoos here).

As I understand, this was just the most recent flip-flop for a man that changes his political ideology faster than John Kerry can change his Birkenstocks. In fact, if my sources are correct, Bob has flip-flopped FOUR times.

The reason: He wants, er, wanted, to be a judge. You have to admire someone who chases down a dream, but at what price to his constituents.

Vote Raymond MacKay June 10th - District 1


- SSHM

- SSHM

I looked at the list and did not find Mr. David Crenshaw anywhere...( I did however find Mr. George Duckworth ) Crenshaw has always been a life long Democrat and even ran as a Democrat twice in an attempt to beat Taylor (lost both times) and then 4 years ago he "switched" parties to run as a Republican for sheriff after Taylor announced he was not seeking another term. The reason he gave was that Democrats are not conservative enough for him . This is from a man who went over budget (and said he could not get his arms around all the reasons why) and has had an increase in his budget each year he has been in office and still wants more…What happened to "I will do more with less"???
He is a true RINO…As he so proved yet again just two years after taking office. Crenshaw was requested, by the head of the Anderson Republican Party to attend an event to show support for the Republican candidate for Governor here in Anderson and he said that he was sick and could not attend, but was later to have been found at a fund raiser for the Democratic candidate Moore on the same date.

Vote Skipper June 10th.

Libertarian

To some posters on here this is portrayed as a bad word and a bad thing.

In this election year when my choices seem to be between McCain, and Obama or Clinton I have looked for other choices. There are no circumstances where I can bring myself to vote for either of those three. So as an alternative to not voting in the Presidential race I looked elsewhere for a candidate. In doing so I read about the Constitutional Party, the Green Party, the Libertarian Party, and several other “Third Parties”. The Libertarian Party impressed me.

It has been40+ years since I first registered as a Republican. (The state I lived in when I became 21 required you to choose a political party.) The Republican Party of today is not the Republican Party I joined. The Republican Party of today has become “tax and spend”. It has become “big government.” It has become so liberal that its presidential nominee was considered as a vice-presidential nominee by the Democrats. This is not the Republican Party I joined and supported throughout my adult life.

Although my mind is not entirely made up, I think Libertarians Bob Barr and Wayne Root will be getting my vote this November. I am not a big fan of either of these gentlemen. But a vote for them is better than a vote for either of the three peas in a pod. I am impressed by what I read of the Libertarian Party. I think their platform is the way for our country to go. Although it may be blasphemy, I think if Ronald Reagan were alive and cognizant today he would be joining the Libertarians too.

Let's be honest, folks... In Anderson County, unless you were a Democrat until about 15 years ago, you had NO real chance of election. Therefore, you ran as a Democrat. Times changed. Now it is to the point that no one can be elected if not a Republican!

Pendulum is swinging back now and as usual our Anderson county is lagging behind but still following the trends.

NomadRon....I agree with you partly. I would go to the end of the Earth and jump off before I would vote for the Muslim or another Clinton. There are things I dislike about John McCain and a few that I do like. I will vote for McCain though.
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I'M SURE OF THIS...NO MO GANG OF FIVE
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Libertarian

To some posters on here this is portrayed as a bad word and a bad thing.

In this election year when my choices seem to be between McCain, and Obama or Clinton I have looked for other choices. There are no circumstances where I can bring myself to vote for either of those three. So as an alternative to not voting in the Presidential race I looked elsewhere for a candidate. In doing so I read about the Constitutional Party, the Green Party, the Libertarian Party, and several other “Third Parties”. The Libertarian Party impressed me.

It has been40+ years since I first registered as a Republican. (The state I lived in when I became 21 required you to choose a political party.) The Republican Party of today is not the Republican Party I joined. The Republican Party of today has become “tax and spend”. It has become “big government.” It has become so liberal that its presidential nominee was considered as a vice-presidential nominee by the Democrats. This is not the Republican Party I joined and supported throughout my adult life.

Although my mind is not entirely made up, I think Libertarians Bob Barr and Wayne Root will be getting my vote this November. I am not a big fan of either of these gentlemen. But a vote for them is better than a vote for either of the three peas in a pod. I am impressed by what I read of the Libertarian Party. I think their platform is the way for our country to go. Although it may be blasphemy, I think if Ronald Reagan were alive and cognizant today he would be joining the Libertarians too.

- NomadRon

Heck, why not toss sterno into the fires and vote Ralph Nader while you're at it? you're already tossing away your vote anyways, so give ole Ralphy-boy some ego-boost.

Libertarian

To some posters on here this is portrayed as a bad word and a bad thing.

In this election year when my choices seem to be between McCain, and Obama or Clinton I have looked for other choices. There are no circumstances where I can bring myself to vote for either of those three. So as an alternative to not voting in the Presidential race I looked elsewhere for a candidate. In doing so I read about the Constitutional Party, the Green Party, the Libertarian Party, and several other “Third Parties”. The Libertarian Party impressed me.

It has been40+ years since I first registered as a Republican. (The state I lived in when I became 21 required you to choose a political party.) The Republican Party of today is not the Republican Party I joined. The Republican Party of today has become “tax and spend”. It has become “big government.” It has become so liberal that its presidential nominee was considered as a vice-presidential nominee by the Democrats. This is not the Republican Party I joined and supported throughout my adult life.

Although my mind is not entirely made up, I think Libertarians Bob Barr and Wayne Root will be getting my vote this November. I am not a big fan of either of these gentlemen. But a vote for them is better than a vote for either of the three peas in a pod. I am impressed by what I read of the Libertarian Party. I think their platform is the way for our country to go. Although it may be blasphemy, I think if Ronald Reagan were alive and cognizant today he would be joining the Libertarians too.

- NomadRon

I watched a good portion of this convention on CSPAN. It seems to me that there's as much division among members of the Libertarian Party as there is among members of the Democrat and Republican parties. Libertarians also seem to be casting about for a sense of identity as well.

The following is from today's The American Spectator site.:

"DENVER -- A multi-ballot battle for the Libertarian Party's presidential nomination is almost guaranteed, now that the party has posted the official results of the delegate-token count:

Bob Barr (94 tokens)
Wayne Allyn Root (94 tokens)
Mary Ruwart (94 tokens)
Mike Gravel (67 tokens)
Mike Jingozian (63 tokens)
George Phillies (62 tokens)
Steve Kubby (60 tokens)

That's a total of 534 tokens, meaning that nearly 100 delegates didn't give their tokens to any candidate, or else gave tokens to one of the seven declared candidates who didn't make the cut. At any rate, Barr's token count (even allowing a cushion for the tokens his campaign lent to Gravel) amounts to less than one-sixth of the more than 600 delegates. Barr will probably get a larger first-round vote, but it looks nearly impossible for him to get the 300+ votes needed for a majority on the first ballot.

Lots of intrigue and horse-trading can be expected, and Team Barr face an obvious challenge from the LP's more radical bloc. If Jingozian, Phillies, and Kubby throw their support to Ruwart to form an anti-Barr alliance, that would put Ruwart -- the sweetheart of the radicals -- close to a majority of the delegates. (Oh, all those ignorant MSM reporters who thought the nomination was a done deal for Barr!)

Meanwhile, at 9 p.m. ET (7 p.m. MT), Jim Pinkerton will moderate the seven-candidate debate on C-SPAN tonight."


You can also find out more about this convention on The Huffington Post site.

Heck, why not toss sterno into the fires and vote Ralph Nader while you're at it? you're already tossing away your vote anyways, so give ole Ralphy-boy some ego-boost.

- wyatt1sc

Wyatt I earned my vote. I spent over 20 years in the military to defend the right of both of us to vote as we see fit.

I am not tossing my vote away. I am using it to try and change the status quo. It might work if enough of us do it and get the attention of "party leaders."

As for your suggestion as to who I should vote for... rest assured I will give it all the consideration it deserves!

And, there's no "H" in RINO.

- major taylor

. . . just like there's no "i" or "s" in CHiPs?

Mah-roon . . . I swear . . .


- SSHM

. . . just like there's no "i" or "s" in CHiPs?

My dictionary shows an "i" in "highway," and "s" is an almost universal designation of plural.

Perhaps this is why you still believe in taxing and spending. You can't read very well.

And, there's still no "h" in RINO