City Council (May 12)

Excuse me! Doesn't a bill for over $25,000 seem a bit too much for one block, and a very short one at that?

Shouldn't we wait and get more of North Main paved at one time? It has to be cheaper to move in all that equipment when a larger project is done.

BTW, when are we getting all of "downtown" Main Street paved?

Didn't I hear that the streetscape was to be extended to that block? Won't that require tearing up the street?

Inquiring minds need to know!

Excuse me! Doesn't a bill for over $25,000 seem a bit too much for one block, and a very short one at that?

Shouldn't we wait and get more of North Main paved at one time? It has to be cheaper to move in all that equipment when a larger project is done.

BTW, when are we getting all of "downtown" Main Street paved?

Didn't I hear that the streetscape was to be extended to that block? Won't that require tearing up the street?

Inquiring minds need to know!

- Petunia

Petunia,

Although $25,000 seems like a lot of money, paving and repairing streets is not easy or cheap. In addition, the contract will include placing a traffic signal conduit across Main Street.

Paving Downtown Main Street has proven to be slower and more difficult than expected. Construction workers are constantly faced with new surprises. Among the surprises were electric cable from the “old day”, which the city had no knowledge of its existence. In addition, they found railcar tracks, which were buried two feet below the ground.

Most Downtown Main Street paving should be completed by the end of August of this year, if no more surprises are discovered.

Streetscape construction for North and South Main Street will be a continuously growing project, especially if the Capital Project Sales Tax Referendum passes.

Petunia, I am glad Inquiring minds are asking these questions. Just imagine if this dialogue had started 40 years ago!

... Just imagine if this dialogue had started 40 years ago!

- Art Kaldas

Art,

It did. Failure to recognize discussions and dreams of the past does a disservice to those people who worked hard to allow the City of Anderson to put out thriving runners ("The Miracle Mile") rather than just dying in place in the 1970s.

The only mistake was their failure to recognize that the grand plan would eventually devastate the downtown area, but they weren't alone in their failure to see that coming. And even those who did see it coming were powerless to stop it.

The world didn't begin - and the history of Anderson County and the City of Anderson didn't begin - in 1995 with the arrival of Joey Preston, you know.

Seriously (and all snideness aside), forward-thinkers in the City of Anderson more than 40 years decided that if the city was to survive commercially, it would have to go with the flow and branch out - "sprawl" as some of the critics call it.

It's a trend that continues to this day, to the detriment of downtown areas in cities small, medium and large throughout the country. But it is that "sprawl" that has given those cities enough tax revenue to even CONSIDER putting money into downtown revitalization projects.

In other words, had Richard Shirley and those who came before him NOT pursued that "sprawl" option, Anderson may well be dying AND bankrupt today. Hindsight is always 20-20, Art, but other than as a general reference based on lessons learned ("Burner's hot, isn't it? Don't touch it again, son") it's all but useless for planning purposes because of the difficulty of undoing what's already been done.

Nothing that has been suggested for revitalizing downtown Anderson - be it landscaping and road improvements (known euphemistically as "Streetscape" projects), funding of the arts in areas like festivals and tourist attractions ("fluffy pink clouds" to some misguided critics), storefront revitalization, parking decks and tax incentives (TIF and other programs) - is new. It's all been tried before, somewhere, with varying degrees of success.

Let's just hope it works in Anderson. I'm an optimist, but the first step to finding the SOLUTION is to recognize the PROBLEM - and the problem is that modern-day lifestyles have left congested downtown areas behind, and specialty shops and small department stores have been forced into a fight for survivial by the big guys out in the suburbs.

You CANNOT ignore the efforts of well-meaning people in the past who saw the train wreck coming, but were all but powerless to do anything about it other than to try to survive it. But for some reason, a lot of people on The Cocklebur keep trying to erase, ignore, trivialize or second-guess the motives of those behind that history.

Now, do I have a solution? No. But I do have a sense of history. I remember downtown Anderson in its heyday, including the Belks on The Square that was the only place I knew to buy Boy Scout supplies, Fant's Camera Shop, a Hobby Shop at one time (only place in three counties where I could buy slides for my microscope and test tubes, flasks, glass tubes and individual chemicals for my chemistry set directly without having to order from Fisher Scientific), and a variety of other small businesses that were thriving, especially when we went Christmas shopping there more than 40 years ago.

I also remember when Belvedere Plaze first showed up (and the first McDonald's in Anderson nearby) - back when "The Miracle Mile" was little more than a dream that had, among other things, a drive-in theater, a radiator shop and a junkyard or two.

Downtown Anderson will never regain its previous glory, in that form, any more than ol' JDTippett can be young again. But we can all hope, and dream, just as we did four or five decades ago - even knowing full well that even that most pleasant of dreams can turn into a nightmare.

And, with the right touches, we can survive and thrive. That's why I have never criticized, and will never criticize, any effort that is made toward downtown revitalization (even this little paving project you're discussing now), because something - SOMETHING, no matter how offbeat or trivial it may seem at the time - just might be that magic water from the Fountain of Youth.

I do know for sure, though, that if you stop tryin', you start dyin'. And whether you believe it or not, those movers and shakers in Anderson 40 or 50 years ago really were tryin'.

All I can say is, "Keep tryin', and good luck."

JDTippett,

Thanks for the journey through history lane.

You described accurately what had happened. However, we need to learn from our history. We had the right ideas to save and move Downtown forward, while most of our community leaders were asleep at the wheel.

Presently, we have new leadership and a new momentum. Also, we have residents who are able to communicate their ideas and feelings through Web Pages. We need to fully to use this tool to encourage our leadership to continue to move forward, while holding them accountable for any missteps.

Art,

Can you check your resources on this? I can't believe that is the price to be paid for such a small amount of paving. Perhaps Councilman Kirven or former Mayor Shirley (he is now a member of the "downtown development committe") can make this matter more clear to me

I did read the documents and see that the "streetscape" and milling? will be completed before this paving takes place.

I still fail to see how 50 to 75 feet on a newly paved, section is going to make people forget about the next 6-8 blocks of teeth jarring ride through "downtown" Anderson. Could it have something to do with the new electric (signal?) cable that is to be placed?

Art,Can you check your resources on this?  I can't believe that is the price to be paid for such a small amount of paving.  Perhaps Councilman Kirven or former Mayor Shirley (he is now a member of the "downtown committee") can explain to me why this being paved before the "streetscape" is finished.

- Petunia

Petunia,

For a source, check here  Its Item B-7 on the Agenda, and page 78 in the Packet’s Executive Summary.

Thank you for the history lesson JD. From everything I hear downtown Anderson was once THE place to be with many of the stores and streets having quite a history. Every once in a while I will stumble over a marker down town that I hadn't seen before and learn something new.
I have been in the area about 15 years and I know when I first moved here I pretty much ignored downtown because it seemed pretty beat up and deserted. But I have noticed the trend reversing inself over the last 5-10 years. It may just be that I have spent more time driving through it in the last couple of years but it seems to me that when I do there's usually something going on, or freshened up.
I think it probably took a lot of years for downtown to get in the shape it was when I first moved here. And I can understand your frustration Petunia, progress is slow, but it's getting done slowly but surely. Maybe not in the places we want or the order we want but it is getting there and hopefully people will continue to support it's growth. Shop downtown, eat downtown, maybe even stumble over one of those markers and learn some history folks. We all need to support it if we want it to work.

Well, since we like history lessons, let me give you another one - one that may be useful in helping those shortsighted "planners" and powers that be in the 1970s and 1980s understand their BIGGEST MISTAKE.

And it WASN'T allowing the city to expand.

Downtown areas, like the one in Anderson, used to be magnets for all types of local residents and their families. Even after hours - especially on Friday and Saturday nights and Sunday afternoons - they were busy with teenagers enjoying their first tentative tastes of pending adulthood driving through town, meeting friends, and basically just hanging out, mostly harmessly, under the watchful eye of the local police.

At some point in the late 1970s-early 1980s, though, local officials in Anderson and other towns throughout the upstate decided those teenagers were NUISANCES and took steps to rid the streets of them on weekends.

Now, think about that: No teenagers allowed after hours on Friday nights and Saturday nights and on Sunday afternoons.

It doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to see what the result of that is. If those who are the FUTURE OR YOUR COMMUNITY are told by officials they aren't welcome on a public street on weekends, after hours, why in the world would they ever feel welcome ANY TIME?

Some of those who were teenagers when they were told to find somewhere else to go are now in their 40s. I'll bet some of them still don't do business in downtown Anderson. (I know that I do business in downtown Pickens and Easley only if it's absolutely necessary, although I was in my late 20s by the time cruising was banned and it was my children who were told they weren't welcome in public.)

Banning those who could have grown up with a love for the downtown area from that downtown area is what's called "shooting yourself in the foot."

So do I suggest bringing back "cruising" in downtown Anderson? Probably not a good idea, given the current mindset of some in the City of Anderson who even now want to impose a curfew on teenagers not because they've done anything wrong, but because they MIGHT do something wrong.

But if the City of Anderson doesn't find some way to attract those teenagers and 20-somethings back, anything they do will be just a stop-gap measure before downtown resumes its slow decline.

Ol' JD's grandchildren somehow make him feel younger, more vibrant, every time he spends time with them, because he knows they are the future. He'd never tell them they're not welcome on weekends.

But for some reason, cities all over the area treat their children and grandchildren like they're carrying a plague.

Want to revitalize downtown? Find some way to bring those kids back. Make 'em feel welcome. Give 'em a reason to WANT to go to the downtown area. (Hint: Cigar bars and private, adults-only clubs won't do it.)

Anybody for movie theaters, arcades, Chuckie Cheese and paintball?

Well, since we like history lessons, let me give you another one - one that may be useful in helping those shortsighted "planners" and powers that be in the 1970s and 1980s understand their BIGGEST MISTAKE.

And it WASN'T allowing the city to expand.

Downtown areas, like the one in Anderson, used to be magnets for all types of local residents and their families. Even after hours - especially on Friday and Saturday nights and Sunday afternoons - they were busy with teenagers enjoying their first tentative tastes of pending adulthood driving through town, meeting friends, and basically just hanging out, mostly harmessly, under the watchful eye of the local police.

At some point in the late 1970s-early 1980s, though, local officials in Anderson and other towns throughout the upstate decided those teenagers were NUISANCES and took steps to rid the streets of them on weekends.

Now, think about that: No teenagers allowed after hours on Friday nights and Saturday nights and on Sunday afternoons.

It doesn't take a Rhodes Scholar to see what the result of that is. If those who are the FUTURE OR YOUR COMMUNITY are told by officials they aren't welcome on a public street on weekends, after hours, why in the world would they ever feel welcome ANY TIME?

Some of those who were teenagers when they were told to find somewhere else to go are now in their 40s. I'll bet some of them still don't do business in downtown Anderson. (I know that I do business in downtown Pickens and Easley only if it's absolutely necessary, although I was in my late 20s by the time cruising was banned and it was my children who were told they weren't welcome in public.)

Banning those who could have grown up with a love for the downtown area from that downtown area is what's called "shooting yourself in the foot."

So do I suggest bringing back "cruising" in downtown Anderson? Probably not a good idea, given the current mindset of some in the City of Anderson who even now want to impose a curfew on teenagers not because they've done anything wrong, but because they MIGHT do something wrong.

But if the City of Anderson doesn't find some way to attract those teenagers and 20-somethings back, anything they do will be just a stop-gap measure before downtown resumes its slow decline.

Ol' JD's grandchildren somehow make him feel younger, more vibrant, every time he spends time with them, because he knows they are the future. He'd never tell them they're not welcome on weekends.

But for some reason, cities all over the area treat their children and grandchildren like they're carrying a plague.

Want to revitalize downtown? Find some way to bring those kids back. Make 'em feel welcome. Give 'em a reason to WANT to go to the downtown area. (Hint: Cigar bars and private, adults-only clubs won't do it.)

Anybody for movie theaters, arcades, Chuckie Cheese and paintball?

- JDTippett

What a revolutionary idea from this soldier of
municipal wars. From one who cruised the square and "hung out" at the Drive In (Tom's?) close to the corner of Whitehall/Concord and Clemson Blvd) I like it!

How about a City sponsored event for teenagers. No one over 20 years of age invited. A "dance band" or DJ with latest tunes on the court house steps. A movie in an outdoor space on a large screen TV screen with HD, of course. A tent where they could play all the new electronic games for free or for a small fee.

There could be an information center where teenagers could pick up needed or wanted information.

The only adults present could be those already involved and trusted by teenagers. Of course, in this day and time there would have to be a protective presence. This could consist of officers involved with the schools and the gang task force in "plain clothes". Registration at entrance and bracelets would be appropriate.

Whew! What an exhausting event planning that would take. It would take the co operation of food merchants (don't charge them ridiculous fees to set up food tents), Electronic merchants to donate equipment and staff their enterprises with knowledgeable employees, The City to provide space for some activities inside. ( all the new facilities paid for by taxpayers should be available for public use)

I am not an event planner but I would volunteer to help see this event happen by next Summer. I know Ed would volunteer. How many of the rest of you bloggers would "be there"?

Oh oh, I just hi jacked my own blog. I will have to attend the City Council Meeting to get the answers I am seeking on the paving of that small part of North Main.

JD and Petunia, what a wonderful idea. I remember (god am I that old?) anyway we had dances in the local park sponsered by the town and we had local bands and a dj, it was great fun. In the winter the same event was simply moved into the Y or the local masons building or the local school. After the dances we would all head downtown for burgers or pizza anyway the way it worked out for the local merchants who made money on nights they normally would have been very slow. Of course if you turn downtown into strictly an adult community there is no way the community will survive for more than a few years.

JDTippett,

Thanks for reviving the memories. I do remember the days when Anderson Downtown Square was live with cruising on weekends. Making Downtown a friendly and comfortable place for young people will definitely contribute to its revitalization. However, I do believe that we need a comprehensive approach, which will include all age groups, especially families. Anderson Downtown, with its historical flavor, needs to become a walking destination to live, play, and work.

We seem to be moving in the right direction, but at a very slow pace. Some believe that the pace is too slow, which could lead to a loss of momentum. Others believe that we need an evolution, not a revolution. If we move too fast, we could face failure, which would lead to a loss of momentum.

Based on my personal observations, I do believe the City needs to increase community participation and ownership of the planning process. Developing a City interactive web page, in cooperation with the Independent Mail, could allow greater communication and exchange of ideas between concerned residents and City officials.

There's at least one medium-sized city in Anderson County. Wouldn't want the county's CAVED, D-CUPS and TOGAS to have all the fun to themselves this morning.