Downtown Committee of the City of Anderson held a meeting at Noon today to discuss future revitalization plans for the commercial district. Attending the meeting were the following members:
Mayor Terrence Roberts, Councilman Steve Kirven, Councilman Tom Dunaway, City Manager John Moore, Assistant City Manager Linda McConnell, City Attorney Franklin McClain, and Downtown Development Director Arlene Young.
Among the topics discussed were the following:
• Streetscapes on West Whitner and North Main will be completed by the end of August of this year.
• 134 North Main – former Stine Gallery – is in the process of being renovated to house two new businesses: 1) Half Way 2 Havana, which is a Cigar Club. 2) Burgundy Blues Jazz, which is a Jazz Club. The developers requested a building façade, which would expand the building boundaries into the sidewalks. However, the Committee expressed the view that such a plan could harm our efforts of making Downtown a pedestrian friendly walking destination.
• 312 South Main – Former Hampton Furniture – is in the process of being renovated to house The Fox (English Pub). The City may assist in the development of a back parking lot.
• The Parking Deck, across from the Court House, is expected to be completed by the end of this year. Revenue from TIF, Tax Increment Financing, will cover the cost of this project by the end of 2010. A pedestrian bridge from the Parking Deck to the parking lot of Carolina First Bank will be put on hold. New ideas for building this bridge are being discussed, including building a pedestrian bridge, along Murray Avenue, all the way to the Farmers’ Market.
• Serious thoughts for planning the next Parking Deck are being considered. Location for the project will remain confidential, until all contracts for land acquisition have been secured.
• The City will conduct a 12 months study to plan for constructing a walking trail, which could connect all City and County Public Buildings. The cost of construction will be covered by future revenue of TIF and Hospitality Tax.
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Downtown Update
Art, thanks for the report. I hope that in the near future Anderson County can persuade Mr. John Moore to accept the vacated position of County Administrator. Also...looks like we will be needing more good bartenders with more bars locating downtown. Probably will be a trip for the EcoDev dept. to fly a crew to San Fran or Las Vegas to recruit some good bartenders.
Bubba
Bubba
With all the new bars planned, it's GOOD thing the City recinded the ban on Sunday liquor sales
Ya think they City suggests we drink MORE and eat LEss?
Ya think they City suggests we drink MORE and eat LEss?
Art, thanks for the report. I hope that in the near future Anderson County can persuade Mr. John Moore to accept the vacated position of County Administrator. Also...looks like we will be needing more good bartenders with more bars locating downtown. Probably will be a trip for the EcoDev dept. to fly a crew to San Fran or Las Vegas to recruit some good bartenders.
Bubba- Bubba
Bubba,
Mr. John Moore and Mr. Joey Preston represent contrasting methods of managing local governments. While both of them are capable managers with long lists of accomplishments, they differ on the following:
• Mr. John Moore prefers to communicate all information to Council members through committee meetings and workshops. Mr. Preston, on the other hand, loves to introduce new business and surprise announcements during the Council meetings.
• Mr. Moore strongly believes in compromises and building of consensus. While Mr. Preston is extremely self-assured. He introduces great ideas to County government, and he expects support and understanding from all participating parties.
• Mr. Moore works can be described as a conductor of a classic music orchestra. While Mr. Preston prefers to play the role of a football coach, with cheerleaders at the side line.
Hmmmm. If we could just find a way to have a symphony orchestra with cheerleaders, we'd have it made.
By the way, I LIKE committees. Many of the problems Anderson County now has with five-hour Council meetings and grandstanding could be resolved if some of these grenades could be could be detonated safely in a committee setting, rather than having somebody pull the pin and throw it at a full Council meeting.
With all the new bars planned, it's GOOD thing the City recinded the ban on Sunday liquor sales
Ya think they City suggests we drink MORE and eat LEss?- wyatt1sc
Wyatt 1 SC,
Allowing the sale of alcohol on Sunday within City Limits has proven to be a great idea, introduced at the right time. It has demonstrated the City’s willingness to move forward and use political courage to make a difference.
Hmmmm. If we could just find a way to have a symphony orchestra with cheerleaders, we'd have it made.
By the way, I LIKE committees. Many of the problems Anderson County now has with five-hour Council meetings and grandstanding could be resolved if some of these grenades could be could be detonated safely in a committee setting, rather than having somebody pull the pin and throw it at a full Council meeting.
- JDTippett
JDTippett,
Doing business through well appointed committees is a very reasonable, productive method of making decisions. However, it comes with a price. Much of the work done in committees, behind closed doors, does not receive the credit and public support it deserves and needs. Also, much of these decisions do not pass through the test of fire, coming from opposition and watch dogs.
Art, that is EXACTLY the reason to have committees.
As it stands now, a lot of GOOD ideas that surface in County Council meetings get shot down by the naysayers y'all call "CAVE" before they've even been reviewed properly, and a lot of BAD ideas get pushed forward by the "yes" men that make up a majority of Council.
A committee is an excellent way to give ideas - both good and bad - a fair hearing before their futures are determined by the visceral reactions of the ideologically rigid members of the public from BOTH sides who perform regularly at the circus y'all call "County Council meetings."
Besides, committee meetings can serve to provide MORE, not less, public access to the policymaking process - and many objections to proposals can be addressed in that setting, rather than have one of those overall GOOD ideas die an untimely death at the hands of a simple misunderstanding.
You do not make good public policy by ignoring the opposition. You do it by bringing them to your side, either through debate or through compromise.
If you can't do that, then - and only then - do you exercise that dreaded "tyranny of the majority" to get your way.
I know it slows the process initially, but over time I think you'd find out that it actually makes it possible to move forward without all the hostility you now have coming from both sides in Anderson County. It won't eliminate all of it, but it'll at least show respect to both sides of the issues.
Bubba,
Mr. John Moore and Mr. Joey Preston represent contrasting methods of managing local governments. While both of them are capable managers with long lists of accomplishments, they differ on the following:
• Mr. John Moore prefers to communicate all information to Council members through committee meetings and workshops. Mr. Preston, on the other hand, loves to introduce new business and surprise announcements during the Council meetings.
• Mr. Moore strongly believes in compromises and building of consensus. While Mr. Preston is extremely self-assured. He introduces great ideas to County government, and he expects support and understanding from all participating parties.
• Mr. Moore works can be described as a conductor of a classic music orchestra. While Mr. Preston prefers to play the role of a football coach, with cheerleaders at the side line.
- Art Kaldas
Art I am very surprised at your astute assessment. I agree with you on this one.
Now which will deliver progress with less pain?
Now which will deliver progress with less pain?
- non sequitur
Non Sequitur,
I am struggling with this question.
Both men have delivered progress, and both men have caused their share of pain. In the case of Mr. John Moore, the perception is that progress in the City of Anderson moves at the speed of a snail on tranquilizer, to quote an expression by Mr. Steve Kirven. And in the case of Mr. Joey Preston, you only need to read the front page of local newspapers, watch local television news programs, and observe protesters at the City Square, to know that the pain has been deep, although entertaining. However, in the case of Mr. John Moore, there has been noticeable improvement. The snail has gone through a drug rehabilitation program, and its speed has improved. In addition, the City of Anderson has become increasingly open with its business dealings and more welcoming of citizens’ involvement. And in the case of Mr. Joey Preston, I believe he is simply enjoying the ride, while watching his opponents shout for greater transparency and open government.
Art I am surprised that once again I agree with your assessment for the most part.
Based on my opinion I would add the following:
I believe the dual water rates early denial has hurt Mr. Moore. But I don't think the fix for that is far off.
I don't know if the displays of "overconfidence" (for lack of a better term) by Mr. Preston will be forgotten because it seems to be a continuing theme.
Based on my opinion I would add the following:
I believe the dual water rates early denial has hurt Mr. Moore. But I don't think the fix for that is far off.
I don't know if the displays of "overconfidence" (for lack of a better term) by Mr. Preston will be forgotten because it seems to be a continuing theme.
Non Sequitur,
Many do wonder what will happen if Mr. Joey Preston decided to emulate the example set by Mr. John Moore by becoming more inclusive, more transparent, and less flamboyant.
Some believe that such a change will make Anderson County a more comfortable place to live, work, and play, while others expect the momentum for progress to slow and the interest in local politics to fade away.
Personally, I have deep appreciation for both men. We won the lottery twice by having both of them. And I do place great expectations on the City/County Joint Committee. Through this committee, both men can combine their skills, personal and professional, to move our community forward.
Many do wonder what will happen if Mr. Joey Preston decided to emulate the example set by Mr. John Moore by becoming more inclusive, more transparent, and less flamboyant.
Some believe that such a change will make Anderson County a more comfortable place to live, work, and play, while others expect the momentum for progress to slow and the interest in local politics to fade away.
Personally, I have deep appreciation for both men. We won the lottery twice by having both of them. And I do place great expectations on the City/County Joint Committee. Through this committee, both men can combine their skills, personal and professional, to move our community forward.
The council is focusing on several blocks in the heart of downtown when real results could be acheived by looking at not just North Main but South Main and several blocks to each side of Main street. We expect people to want to spend time & money on Main street when several blocks from these new businesses are junkyards located on Main St? Come on, what does this say about Anderson, to have buildings falling in on Main Street? There were decent looking buildings located where the new parking garage is but there are eyesores everywhere elese. Why not purchase those and make a real difference?
The council is focusing on several blocks in the heart of downtown when real results could be acheived by looking at not just North Main but South Main and several blocks to each side of Main street. We expect people to want to spend time & money on Main street when several blocks from these new businesses are junkyards located on Main St? Come on, what does this say about Anderson, to have buildings falling in on Main Street? There were decent looking buildings located where the new parking garage is but there are eyesores everywhere elese. Why not purchase those and make a real difference?- jabez
Jabez,
Welcome to the Forum.
The City believes that developing the heart of Downtown will lead to the development of the entire Commercial District, which is about 316 acres. Some of the ideas that are being considered are the following:
• Expanding Streetscape to further North and South Main Street.
• Sell land and buildings owned by the City to developers, not based on the highest bidder, but awarded to businesses with the best plans.
• Building a second parking deck, better and larger.
• Develop a pedestrian walking trail, which could start at the Court House and extend to all City and County Public Buildings, including the Library and the New Court House Annex.
One of the greatest challenges the City is facing is the situation with some property owners who refuse to sell or develop their properties, waiting for a much higher price.
Hey, Art ... Psssstttt! "Eminent domain."
Hey, Art ... Psssstttt! "Eminent domain."- JDTippett
JDTippett,
Eminent Domain sounds practical and convenient. However, it is politically explosive. In addition, some City officials have expressed the view that they do not want to own more buildings than they need.
Art, you don't take it through eminent domain until you need it. And as for being an "explosive" issue, it's sad to me that political courage seems to be so lacking nowadays.
Art, you don't take it through eminent domain until you need it. And as for being an "explosive" issue, it's sad to me that political courage seems to be so lacking nowadays.
- JDTippett
JDTippett,
One of the County Council members decided to exercise political courage, based on the advice of many of his supporters, until 450 angry landowners showed-up in a public hearing to let him know, in terms less than polite, how they really feel about his political courage.
Observing the above experience taught me that politics and courage do not always mix well.
Art, thanks for the report. I hope that in the near future Anderson County can persuade Mr. John Moore to accept the vacated position of County Administrator. Also...looks like we will be needing more good bartenders with more bars locating downtown. Probably will be a trip for the EcoDev dept. to fly a crew to San Fran or Las Vegas to recruit some good bartenders.
Bubba- Bubba
• Mr. John Moore prefers to communicate all information to Council members through committee meetings and workshops. .
• Mr. Moore strongly believes in compromises and building of consensus.
Mr. Moore works can be described as a conductor of a classic music orchestra.- Art Kaldas
To illustrate Mr. Moore's leadership and communication:
John Moore ( re the purchase of the water utility )
10/25/04 “We did not know everything about the system when we purchased it…”
03/21/08 “So, when the city finally jointly purchased the system in April 2002, it was only then the parties could really evaluate the needs of the system.”
“About a year after the purchase , the system study was completed and revealed that the retail system was in need of about $12 million of upgrades and improvements.”
Councilman Kirven
03/25/02 “…Duke had mislead everyone about the amount of capital improvements being made by them during the purchasing of the system. The improvements were supposed to be included in the purchase price of the system and now we are paying for them again. It appears that these improvements are being paid for twice. The community has been victimized by corporate greed.”
Councilman Dunaway
06/28/04 “The city did a poor job in obtaining the water system It needs $13 million of repairs to water lines.”
Mayor Shirley
01/24/05 “…the price of the water system was too high. I believe the figure should have been about $10 million lower.”
03/08/07 “Pure and simply, Duke acted in a fraudulent manner.”
Folks, the most important question is how come Councilman Kirven knew that Duke was victimizing Anderson the month before the purchase agreement was signed, yet the City Manager didn’t know or didn’t care ?
Second question is why the city signed the damn contract knowing they had to pay twice for repairs and improvements that Duke had promised to make ?
Finally, and the most perplexing question to me, why aren’t all customers, city and non-city, complaining about how the city administrative management handled the purchase ?
Don’t they realize how much lower all rates would have been if the overall cost was reduced by between $20 and $26 million dollars ?
Pappy,
I was not an observer during the City’s negotiation with Duke Power to purchase the water system. However, I have been an observer during the City’s negotiation with Anderson Regional Joint Water System over an expanded transmission plan. The following was observed:
• Anderson Regional Joint Water System wanted to make an improvement to the system, based on a plan engineered by Camp, Dresser, & McKee, Inc, for an estimated cost of $23 million to $40 million.
• The City of Anderson and the City of Clemson hired Design South to study the CDM proposal, and they came up with a plan to make the same improvements at a cost of $10.5 million.
• ARJWS refused to endorse Design South plan.
• The City of Anderson and Clemson hired a third party, Brown & Caldwell, to examine both plans.
• Brown & Caldwell evaluation reached the conclusion that Design South has a superior plan for a much lower cost.
• The City of Anderson and Clemson have authorized their attorneys to continue negotiating with ARJWS, with the hope of reaching an agreement.
Pappy, I feel very confident that our City officials are moving in the right direction in providing us with the best service at the best price. If you disagree with the above plan, now is the time to express your view.
I was not an observer during the City’s negotiation with Duke Power to purchase the water system. However, I have been an observer during the City’s negotiation with Anderson Regional Joint Water System over an expanded transmission plan. The following was observed:
• Anderson Regional Joint Water System wanted to make an improvement to the system, based on a plan engineered by Camp, Dresser, & McKee, Inc, for an estimated cost of $23 million to $40 million.
• The City of Anderson and the City of Clemson hired Design South to study the CDM proposal, and they came up with a plan to make the same improvements at a cost of $10.5 million.
• ARJWS refused to endorse Design South plan.
• The City of Anderson and Clemson hired a third party, Brown & Caldwell, to examine both plans.
• Brown & Caldwell evaluation reached the conclusion that Design South has a superior plan for a much lower cost.
• The City of Anderson and Clemson have authorized their attorneys to continue negotiating with ARJWS, with the hope of reaching an agreement.
Pappy, I feel very confident that our City officials are moving in the right direction in providing us with the best service at the best price. If you disagree with the above plan, now is the time to express your view.
