Mitt and Mormonism

Kilkenny, I agree wholeheartedly, It is just a shame that you have to convince people that Mormons are Christians. Where do people get this stuff?
You are right, he is a successful businessman, was a really good governor, is well spoken, well educated, the only fault I see is that he has been around DC politics most of his life. Thanks to his Dad, who was by all accounts a very good senator.

Kilkenny, I agree wholeheartedly, It is just a shame that you have to convince people that Mormons are Christians. Where do people get this stuff?
You are right, he is a successful businessman, was a really good governor, is well spoken, well educated, the only fault I see is that he has been around DC politics most of his life. Thanks to his Dad, who was by all accounts a very good senator.

- noeline

It is not the religion the man is in. It is the religion in the man.

How does his faith guide him, steady him, move him, support him and give him the wisdom to lead?

True, the history of Morman faith has some very untidy facets. Come to think of it, so does the Christian faith.

I haven't decided to vote for any candidate yet, but I do like much of what Romney espouses. I'm open to giving him support.

Not to worry about Mitt being a Mormon. I have worked with many Mormons and they have all been honest, hardworking, Christians who have never tried to push their beliefs on me. I believe Mitt would make a very good president and his business acumen would be a tremendous asset. After all look at the value of the dollar right now and the number of jobs moving overseas. We need someone with a good business head to get us back on track. Go Mitt!

- kilkenny

Hmmmm, let's see, who was our last President that was a businessman and a Governor. . .

Remember back in the 60s when folks were afraid the Pope would run the US when Kennedy was running? Nonsense... Same with Romney.

The man is solid and sensible and is going to be a wonderful candidate. I hope many will go to see and hear him tomorrow! He is at Main St. Deli at 5:30 PM.

Sorry gang. Mitt might be a good guy. And most mormons I have met have been genuinely good, nice people. That being said, Mormon beliefs about God depart widely from basic orthodox Christianity. I'm not saying Mormons are bad or evil, but it is hard to classify them as Christian.

(1) They do not believe in one God. They believe in many Gods. And they believe that we can become gods and goddesses. Very different from Christianity.

(2) Mormonism teaches that God the Father was once a man. Christianity (by contrast) teaches that God exists eternally.

(3) Mormonism teaches that salvation is earned through obedience to commands of the church.

(4) Mormonism have four "scriptures" one of which is the Bible. Where the Bible disagrees with the book of Mormon, the book of Mormon gets precedence.

Of course, not all Mormons believe these things, but these are the official teachings of the church and their Scriptures.

Additionally (and perhaps more alarming) the shunning of people who choose to leave the faith begins to border on the kind of psychological manipulation characteristic of dangerous cults. While I wouldn't put mormonism as a whole in that category, they do have some "official" practices which lend themselves in that direction.

Whether these things ought to influence who you vote for president is not something I am offering an opinion on, but I do think it is wise to not close our eyes and then say we see no evil.

There - that should be fodder for a little hate mail.

Just remember: Mormons ain't Muslims! I actually suggested that for Mitt's campaign slogan, but one of his campaign people threatened to kill me if she ever heard it again.So never mind.

I don't care about his religious beliefs. If somebody calls himself a Christian, then far be it from me to judge him otherwise. However, I will not vote for Romney because he has changed his position on too many important issues from when he was Governor of Massachusetts until now, and I'm afraid those positions will change again once he's in the White House.

I don't care about his religious beliefs. If somebody calls himself a Christian, then far be it from me to judge him otherwise. However, I will not vote for Romney because he has changed his position on too many important issues from when he was Governor of Massachusetts until now, and I'm afraid those positions will change again once he's in the White House.

- Lee Cole

Why is changing a position or several, even many positions such a bad thing? A person might hold a particular position as a governor that he/she might not if they were president. What about, "once I was blind, but now I see..?" I was a sinner but now I am "saved by grace."

I'm not a supporter of Mitt Romney but I'm willing to give him a chance. There's a long way to go before I have my mind made up.

Keep an open mind.

I don't care about his religious beliefs. If somebody calls himself a Christian, then far be it from me to judge him otherwise. However, I will not vote for Romney because he has changed his position on too many important issues from when he was Governor of Massachusetts until now, and I'm afraid those positions will change again once he's in the White House.

- Lee Cole

Why is changing a position or several, even many positions such a bad thing? A person might hold a particular position as a governor that he/she might not if they were president. What about, "once I was blind, but now I see..?" I was a sinner but now I am "saved by grace."

I'm not a supporter of Mitt Romney but I'm willing to give him a chance. There's a long way to go before I have my mind made up.

Keep an open mind.

- republikin

Just as long as the argument isn’t because he has business experience and has been a Governor !

Been there--done that. . .

Ok folks...I'm just asking....
Whatever happened to separation of Church and State?
Last I checked this is the Untied States and a democracy....and that we elect candidates that we feel will do the best job to lead the nation.

I'm not endorsing any candidate... am I just curious why a candidate's religion is such a big deal to some.

Are we afraid that there is the possibility of a reality series "BIG WHITE HOUSE LOVE"?

Just remember: Mormons ain't Muslims! I actually suggested that for Mitt's campaign slogan, but one of his campaign people threatened to kill me if she ever heard it again.So never mind.

- mustang sally

Dang, Sally, the campaign folks ain't got a bit of sense. It sounds great to me!

And Lee -- If I had to be accountable for everything I said over the years, and nobody realized I'd changed my mind after learning otherwise, it would be rather sad.

M-M-M speaking of changing opinions I guess you wouldn't want to vote for me then because at one time I believed in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the even more mysterious Tooth Fairy. Thank heavens I never fell for the Great Pumpkin story or you would really think I am nuts!!

Sorry gang. Mitt might be a good guy. And most mormons I have met have been genuinely good, nice people. That being said, Mormon beliefs about God depart widely from basic orthodox Christianity. I'm not saying Mormons are bad or evil, but it is hard to classify them as Christian.

(1) They do not believe in one God. They believe in many Gods. And they believe that we can become gods and goddesses. Very different from Christianity.

(2) Mormonism teaches that God the Father was once a man. Christianity (by contrast) teaches that God exists eternally.

(3) Mormonism teaches that salvation is earned through obedience to commands of the church.

(4) Mormonism have four "scriptures" one of which is the Bible. Where the Bible disagrees with the book of Mormon, the book of Mormon gets precedence.

Of course, not all Mormons believe these things, but these are the official teachings of the church and their Scriptures.

Additionally (and perhaps more alarming) the shunning of people who choose to leave the faith begins to border on the kind of psychological manipulation characteristic of dangerous cults. While I wouldn't put mormonism as a whole in that category, they do have some "official" practices which lend themselves in that direction.

Whether these things ought to influence who you vote for president is not something I am offering an opinion on, but I do think it is wise to not close our eyes and then say we see no evil.

There - that should be fodder for a little hate mail.

- AndersonNative

Whoa there cowboy, please direct to the source of your information regarding Mormonism because I sure would like to add to my knowledge. My understanding of Mormonism and what you have stated don't quite mesh.....might be that I don't have a good understanding.

All of the above discussion highlights why there are so many variations of Chirstianity in America. Several years ago in the AIM there was an article on the latest Southern Baptist Convention where one of their goals was to save Catholics because they were headed down the wrong path. Many other churches don't understand why some evangelicals speak in tongues. Why were witches burned in Salem, MA 200 years ago in the name of Christianity? Why was there an Inquisition in Europe several hundred years ago lead by the Catholic church? Why do Methodists have to have the same steps in every Sunday service? Why do some churches handle snakes? Yet these are all Christian organizations. So tell me again why you question what Mormons might do in their churches.

Hi KillKenny,

I agree with you that there is danger is labeling a group that identifies itself as Christian as anything other. And yet at the same time, it's necessary to try to make some distinctions. Not everyone who says they are Christian... is. Christianity has a long history. Some parts better than others. But surely we can agree that some who have claimed the mantle of Christianity have been really evil. Hitler claimed to be Christian. He was wrong.

As to why I don't accept Mormons as mainstream Christians, I can only answer for myself. To me Mormonism is different because they deviate from widely held beliefs about central issues.

Southern Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, evangelicals who speak in tongues... they would all be on the same page with regards to the four points I made in the earlier post (with the possible exception of the Catholics on point three and the primacy of "grace").

I would consider the salem witch burnings and the inquisition killings to be far outside mainstream Christianity perhaps not based on theology but on practice and ethics. And, no, I wouldn't lump modern mormons in with either of those groups.

My point wasn't to demonize mormons or to say you shouldn't vote for a mormom. I am a Christian but generally do not vote a "Christian ticket". Sometimes I find the people who shout most loudly about their "faith" are the ones who represent it the worst.

Who knows? Mitt might be the best candidate. Although his recent inability to distinguish between Barak Obama and Osama bin Laden leads me to believe otherwise.

My point in making the post is that we shouldn't pretend the guy is a "Christian" candidate. And I think we would do well to be suspicious of people painting mormonism as just another Christian denomination like Baptists, Presbyterian and Catholics.

And to answer "givemeabreak" - My source? The mormon beliefs I mention are widely known. I don't have a specific source. I'm sure if you google "mormonism" and "beliefs" you will find plenty of sites both positive and negative about mormons which will tell you the same stuff I did. These are their beliefs. It would be like asking for a source to back up stating that Christians believe in Jesus.

Well said Anderson Native. All I can say is personally I will not loose any sleep over the fact that Romney is Mormon any more than I did over the fact that Nixon was Quaker or Kennedy was Catholic. I seriously doubt that Mitt will sign legislation requiring me take on several more wives. I couldn't afford that!

Hi KillKenny,

I agree with you that there is danger is labeling a group that identifies itself as Christian as anything other. And yet at the same time, it's necessary to try to make some distinctions. Not everyone who says they are Christian... is. Christianity has a long history. Some parts better than others. But surely we can agree that some who have claimed the mantle of Christianity have been really evil. Hitler claimed to be Christian. He was wrong.

As to why I don't accept Mormons as mainstream Christians, I can only answer for myself. To me Mormonism is different because they deviate from widely held beliefs about central issues.

Southern Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, evangelicals who speak in tongues... they would all be on the same page with regards to the four points I made in the earlier post (with the possible exception of the Catholics on point three and the primacy of "grace").

I would consider the salem witch burnings and the inquisition killings to be far outside mainstream Christianity perhaps not based on theology but on practice and ethics. And, no, I wouldn't lump modern mormons in with either of those groups.

My point wasn't to demonize mormons or to say you shouldn't vote for a mormom. I am a Christian but generally do not vote a "Christian ticket". Sometimes I find the people who shout most loudly about their "faith" are the ones who represent it the worst.

Who knows? Mitt might be the best candidate. Although his recent inability to distinguish between Barak Obama and Osama bin Laden leads me to believe otherwise.

My point in making the post is that we shouldn't pretend the guy is a "Christian" candidate. And I think we would do well to be suspicious of people painting mormonism as just another Christian denomination like Baptists, Presbyterian and Catholics.

And to answer "givemeabreak" - My source? The mormon beliefs I mention are widely known. I don't have a specific source. I'm sure if you google "mormonism" and "beliefs" you will find plenty of sites both positive and negative about mormons which will tell you the same stuff I did. These are their beliefs. It would be like asking for a source to back up stating that Christians believe in Jesus.

- AndersonNative

This blog is truly frightening somtimes,.
to think you and Nick and many others on this blog
are bigots. TRUELY SCARY

(1) They do not believe in one God. They believe in many Gods. And they believe that we can become gods and goddesses. Very different from Christianity.

(2) Mormonism teaches that God the Father was once a man. Christianity (by contrast) teaches that God exists eternally.

(3) Mormonism teaches that salvation is earned through obedience to commands of the church.

(4) Mormonism have four "scriptures" one of which is the Bible. Where the Bible disagrees with the book of Mormon, the book of Mormon gets precedence.

Of course, not all Mormons believe these things, but these are the official teachings of the church and their Scriptures.

Additionally (and perhaps more alarming) the shunning of people who choose to leave the faith begins to border on the kind of psychological manipulation characteristic of dangerous cults. While I wouldn't put mormonism as a whole in that category, they do have some "official" practices which lend themselves in that direction.

Whether these things ought to influence who you vote for president is not something I am offering an opinion on, but I do think it is wise to not close our eyes and then say we see no evil.

There - that should be fodder for a little hate mail.

- AndersonNative

Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Under the direction of your Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the earth (John 1:10

Hi GiveMeABreak -

I've been busy for a few days. Sorry I took so long to respond.

And don't worry, I'm not reading your questions as aggressive. I'm reading them as questions. Your tone is nothing but up front and respectful! I appreciate it and hope that mine is the same.

I looked for quotes from the official latter day saints website to help you see their theology. But the website doesn't go into the depth I would need to substantiate all the claims. (This is not surprising, it's simply an intro to Mormonism. Most churches don't put in depth belief statements on their websites either.) While I didn't find anything of depth on the site. A quick read did uncover a few gems which should illustrate some key differences.

Qoute from http://Mormon.org
"The Savior told Joseph not to join any of the churches, for they “were all wrong.” The Savior stated, “They draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof” ( Joseph Smith—History 1:19)."

So we are to understand that all Christians throughout history have been "wrong" and Joseph Smith is the only who has it right. And God told him this in a vision?

Another... Quote from http://mormon.org.
"God brought forth the Book of Mormon... The Book of Mormon is “a record of God’s dealings with the ancient inhabitants of the Americas and contains, as does the Bible, the fulness of the everlasting gospel”."

So the book or mormon is at least on par with the Bible. But on the same page, the website lets us know that the book of mormon provides the (key word being "the") interpretation of the Bible. Starting to sound different from historic Christianity yet?

Another... quote from http://mormon.org
"Having a divine nature as a child of God, you can with the assistance and power of Christ, progress to become one day even as He is."

So one day we become gods and goddesses.

I could go on. My point is not to define the church of Latter Day Saints in a negative light. Much of what I believe as a Christian would look bizarre to someone unfamiliar. My point is they differ on some key teachings. It's not the same as just another denomination. In my view (at least theologically) its relationship to Christianity is more like Islam's relationship with Christianity. We have roots in the same Scriptures, but have beliefs about God and God's revelation that are substantively different.

There is a lot of information on http://Mormon.org which is an official church website. Much of it sounds like historic Christianity. But read carefully and you'll see that it's not.

Just my two cents. Not meant to disparage. Just to clarify.